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The new Andorian and Tellerite designs are interesting.

What is this now, the 4th or 5th, Andorian design since TOS?

At least the 4th.  There's the TOS Andorians, there may have been a redesign for some background Andorians in some of the TMP-era movies, there was one Andorian in TNG (the episode with Lal), the ENT Andorians, and the DSC Andorians.  Was it just me or did these Andorians seem bluer than the ones on ENT.  Still, the changes are minor enough to handwave as regional differences (or perhaps gender differences if you buy into the whole four gender thing from the novels) without having to be a retcon.  And of course there's the Aenar which opens up the possibility of subspecies as well.

These are the 3rd version of the Tellarites.  There's the smooth skinned, "Twilight Zone pig people" from TOS, the wrinkled skin version from ENT, and now the tusked, smooth skinned version for DSC.  Again, this could be handwaved as regional differences.

I still say these Klingons can be handwaved as an early attempt at undoing the Augment Virus.

Random thoughts:
-All hail Empress Georgiou!
-The Mirror Universe has its own version of the Away Team vest, which looks more like armor.
-I wonder how Mirror Voq came to be known as "The Fire Wolf".
-One of the Klingons had some kind of spear.  A re-imagined Gintak or maybe a Lirpa?
-It was a little generic looking, but we finally have another example of a shoulder weapon other than the "Worfzoka" from Insurrection.
-What was Lorica's smirk about when Mirror Georgiou appeared...
-Spock defies Sarek's wishes and joins Starfleet, Mirror Sarek is a rebel and Mirror Spock is a valued crew member of the I.S.S. Enterprise who goes on to be Emperor...

General Trek Discussion / Re: Off Topic Discussion - Direct Ask & Answer
« on: January 12, 2018, 09:54:40 PM »
It seems as though Viacom and CBS are considering re-merging.

Granted it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon, if at all.  Maybe we'll get shows set in both the Prime timeline and the Kelvin Timeline airing at the same time.

Welcome back!

Well it's nice that the Mirror Uniforms looked like uniforms, well with a lot of gaudy gold stuff, and didn't have miniskirts or exposed midriffs.  Pretty good episode overall, I loved the fight scene in the turbolift.  As for the Defiant, I'm going with it either being a pre-refit Connie or mods the Empire made over the last 100 or so years.  I wonder if these rebels are remnants of the rebellion seen in "IaMD" or the beginnings of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance (or both).  I liked Burnham's comments on the Empire's "strength" being a cover for fear and paranoia: "It's painted rust".

"Captain Killy" - "Well that's not very clever." - Burnham and Saru discussing Mirror Captain Tilly's nicknames.

In related news: Eaglemoss is releasing its first run of DSC ships.
We finally get a good look at the Shran and we get some names for the Klingon ships. 

Artwork and Design / Re: Making sense of Discovery's Klingon Starships...
« on: December 09, 2017, 05:06:18 PM »
Great work!

Direct Link:

Looks like the Duras family has been conspiring with Romulans again...

Okay, time to address the proverbial "elephant in the room"...the D-7.  I have seen stills of what ST: Discovery has called the D-7 and it is a travesty to us fans (again, I love the design, just not for the ship it was supposed to represent).  So, originally I was not going to do the D-7 as we all know what she is supposed to look like (even all her re-interpretations and re-uses are generally more true to form then what we have seen in ST:Discovery), so I saw no point in redrawing her... But I then gave it some thought and figured, why not take this opportunity to add to the D-7 family as a fielded variant in the Klingon fleet.  So here she is... The D-7XL (now for all you aircraft aficionados you will get this designation's connection to the F-16XL).

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment…  Did you know that there are two Akula-class submarines?  There’s the one that the Russians call “Akula-class” and there’s the one NATO calls “Akula-class”.  Perhaps this is a similar situation, Starfleet calls one ship a “D-7” while the Klingons call a different ship “D-7”. 

Well, that was something.


It seems that the spore drive has the ability to access different quantum realities, and this is probably where the Mirror Universe episode(s) will happen.  Loved it when they finally used some torpedoes and blew the Ship of the Dead to Grethor, which seemed reminiscent of destroying the Duras sister's BoP in Generations.  Yay! Admiral Cornwall lives!

What did L'Rell mean by soon? Is Ash Voq?
Did Lorca's typing at his control console mean that he caused the last jump to go wrong? And does that mean that the crazy theory that Lorca is from the Mirror Universe is true?

Artwork and Design / Re: Making sense of Discovery's Klingon Starships...
« on: November 10, 2017, 07:50:15 PM »
I like the DSC/DIS designs so far.  But these reinterpretations are pretty cool too.  Nice work!

Good episode.  Saru's complaining about the constant noise of the planet reminded me of that planet in STO with the constant modem noise.  I liked the Gagarin, and that was a pretty good space battle.  Have any of the Starfleet ships fired a single photon this entire series?  Cause I don't remember them doing so.  And given the scene in the second episode, torpedo warheads are ridiculously small...

-Kelpians can run up to 80 km/hr.
-Kelpians are also crazy strong, or Starfleet communicators of this time are crap...
-In the previous episode there were around 10,000 Starfleet/Federation casualties in the war, the destruction of the Gagarin's group adds another 462 to that death toll.
-Out-of-temporal-sync Stamets called Tilly "Captain".  A look at her future?

Also the the second "half" of the season airs January 7th.

Pretty good episode.  Probably the closest we'll get to stand alone/random adventure episodes.  Stamets is definitely suffering some after effects of the spore drive, magic space mushrooms will do that to you I guess...

Some observations:
-Gormanders are endangered space whales so preocupied with feeding on alpha particles that they will ignore mating.  So more space panda than space whale really...
-Harry Mudd's helmet looks like something that might have been designed by/for an Andorian.
-The Lorca death montage reminded me of moments from SG-1 "Window of Opportunity", but far darker.
-Those little weaponized dark matter balls are nasty things...
-Mudd robbed a bank on Betazed.
-The crew have a thing for long ass episode titles.

That dude is seriously unstable. We've have captains that have had to make tough choices and taken actions that weren't exactly by the book...I keep feeling like his closest comparison is Sisko in many ways, but at least Sisko never went over the edge. Sure he did what needed to be done to get results, but you always new with Sisko, a mark had been left on his conscience. Like when he plots to bring the Romulus into the war. We know own those actions will be with him for the rest of his life.

Well to be fair, there was that time Sisko used what was in effect a biological weapon on a Maquis colony to get Eddington to surrender.  Which seemed to have no consequences whatsoever, there was no soul searching, and was never brought up again. 

Saru is another story altogether. He doesn't fear Michael or Lorca but he certainly isn't Michaels friend. He doesn't see the captain as a threat either and if positioned between them, it's not difficult to imagine him siding again with his Captain against Michael.

That comment Saru made about Michael "fitting in" on Discovery after she used him to figure out if "Ripper" was a threat makes me think he has some trust issues with Lorca.  And speaking of Lorca, someone on the STO forums floated the idea that the Lorca we've seen is really the Mirror Universe version of Lorca and he's trying to "fit in" with the Prime Timeline.  Which I guess is a mildly interesting idea, though personally I think some PTSD examination would be more relevant, and it ignores Lorca and Cornwall's history.  That and I don't care much for the Mirror Universe, I know there's supposed to be some connection to the Mirror Universe at some point, I just wish there wasn't.

As for the whole Ash = Voq thing... analysis.
Shazad Latif's response to the fan theory.

I will say that it sounds more plausible than some of the stuff that used in their "Is Discovery a Section 31 ship?" analysis (which has several conspiracy theory worthy bits of "evidence".  I'm on the fence on this whole Ash = Voq thing, on the one hand there does seem to be some evidence for it, on the other the whole thing could be some red herring.

Oh and here's some concept art for the new Klingon ships and weapons.  Some of those bat'leth designs are pretty cool, although insanely impractical for a weapon. 

And speaking of Klingons, they identified the ship that abducted Lorca as a D-7, then Saru made a comment about tracking "that bird-of-prey", then Cornwall made the comment "since you got off that bird-of-prey".  So is "bird-of-prey" just Starfleet jargon for Klingon ships now?

Discovery has been renewed for Season 2, which may not air until 2019.

Oh, and according to and Memory Alpha, the other Klingon was Ujilli, leader of the House of Mo'Kai while Dennas is the leader of the House of D'Ghor.  This seems counter to L'Rell's comment about taking Voq to the "Matriarchs of Mo'Kai", which suggested that the House of Mo'Kai was led by women.

My thoughts/observations:
-Vulcan Fu!
-Connie & Enterprise shout out.
-Sarek's strained relationship with Spock comes in part from the fact that he sacrificed Micheal's career in the Vulcan Expeditionary Forces so Spock could get in, but he joined Starfleet making this sacrifice pointless.
-The "scope" on the phaser rifles displays kill counts.  I hope this is just a training exercise feature.  Although it points to the "scope" perhaps being a multi-function display.  And that was a nice call back (maybe) to when Guinan "came down" to Worf's phaser practice level in that one episode.
-Considering that the proto-holodeck appears to be adjacent to an armory, I assume that its a practice range only.  A military technology that later becomes a recreational tool perhaps?
-Speaking of the armory, the weapons make a distinct sound when put in the slots.  Some kind of magnetic lock or something?  Part of a recharge feature?
-Why didn't Saru's threat ganglia go off when Lorica had that phaser tucked into his pants at the end?
-Admiral Cornwell (IIRC) has some psychological training or a background in psychology.
-Not sure how I feel about the red stripes on the shuttles.  Kinda reminds me of the flasher paint options in STO.
-One of the two Houses that meet with the Admiral was probably Mo'Kai, IIRC Dennas was the leader of House Mo'Kai in the 2nd episode.  Was the other guy the leader of the House of D'hgor?
-It would have been nice had the "logic extremists" had name for their little group.  Not the first time we've seen a splinter group of Vulcans: the separatists who were after the Stone of Gol in TNG: "Gambit" and at least a couple of groups in ENT.  At this point I think there's more examples of the Vulcans being dicks than there are "nice" Vulcans.  For a race that supposedly has abandoned emotion and embraced logic they can be quite arrogant.  Now we know where the Romulans get it from...  Also the dude injecting himself with a device and exploding is just like that Kazon in VOY, and the red glow reminded me of bad guys from Iron Man 3.
-The nebula Sarek was lost in was referred to as being by Yridia, a reference to the Yridians seen in TNG?  Also last week they mentioned Benzar, homeworld of the Benzites as being near one of Discovery's spore drive surprise attacks.
-Kol's a devious bastard ain't he.

On a different note, if Voq is going to be some sort of main protagonist, they need to start featuring him and his only friend a lot more. I get that we're still only a few episodes in, but I'd hate to see this come down the difference between Dukat and pretty much any other villain in Trek. He doesn't even have to be a villain, but if he's going to be a major part of the story, as the pilot suggests, then we need to be seeing him on a regular basis.

Granted, they had years to build up Dukat into the villain he became, but I don't want to see another Future Guy situation here. I don't think that will be the case because we already know more about Voq than Future Guy (ENT) who remained nameless and lacked any sort of identity or cohesive motive other than just to be a bad guy who could show up when they needed to fill a plot hole for all four seasons of ENT.

So, I hope we get more Voq soon.

I've seen comments on other websites that suggest that the Prison Ship Captain was in fact L'Rell (aka Voq's only friend).  Which makes sense I guess, I guess we will know for sure if she shows up with a nasty scar next time.  Also there's a lot of speculation that Lt. Tyler (the prisoner that escaped with Lorca) is really Voq in disguise.

As an aside, I agree with your assessment of Future Guy, but I think he was only in the first couple of seasons.  IIRC his last appearance was in the S2 finale where he warned Archer about the Xindi.  I know he wasn't in S4 because they ended the Temporal Cold War by then, and I'm 99% sure he wasn't in S3 during the Xindi arc.

As another aside, I could see Voq as The Albino from DS9.  When Kol, leader of the House of Kor, takes the Sarcophagus Ship and strands Voq on the Shenzhou it marks the start of a blood feud between Voq and Kol.  During the course of this feud Voq kills Kor's son (IIRC) which is what starts off the events of the DS9 episode.  Hmm... I might have to rewatch that episode next time I get a chance...

Yeah, the official facebook group is having an ongoing discussion about which is worse, the treatment of Ripper or the use of a curse word.

I would hope that would be a sarcastic discussion.  However, I know it isn't... 
Speaking of Ripper, apparently it was intended to be a bridge officer named Ephraim, but they had to scrap that idea since the CGI was cost prohibitive.

Silver Screens and Boob Tubes / Re: TNT's The Last Ship $Spoilers$
« on: October 16, 2017, 03:47:00 PM »
Overall this season was pretty good.  I couldn't help but think about Metal Gear Solid 4, when they nearly rammed the James into that Greek ship.

Artwork and Design / Re: Federation Sol-Class...
« on: October 16, 2017, 03:40:47 PM »
Awesome work!  I'm reminded of the Enterprise-J, Romulan D'Deridex, Ferengi D'Kora, and the Miranda-class.

Well the Klingons themselves, their current appearance is a result of some early attempt to undo the Augment Virus.  As for the ships... The Empire has supposedly been in decline for around 100 years or so.  In this time the 24 Great Houses have begun developing their own equipment independent of each other.  Once the Empire gets reunified, they adopt uniform equipment.  Or not...

• Starbases 343 & 157 appear on the course track map, which pisses me off. Those numbers are WAY too high. Also shown: Beta Lankal, Khitomer, Morska, Rura Penthe, Carraya, Adelphous, & K-7.

Wild guess but Starbase 157 could be a Star Trek Online reference, since there's a Starbase 157 in the game near K-7 that serves as a mission site for the KDF.  Although I'm pretty sure that the locations shown in the map in "Choose Your Pain" are closer together than they are on the STO map...

The Captain list was nice.  I liked the Starbase design, and it would have been nice to get a better look at it.  Though I wonder if it is actually oriented like that (i.e. upside down compared to say TMP era ESD or Regula I) or was that a camera trick.  Damn those Klingon disruptors are nasty (in their effects not how they look)!  Even being close to a blast from one can mess you up... 

The Klingon prison ship captain mentioned that she was descended from spies, given L'Rell's comments on the House of Mokai last time we saw her, I'll take it that Prison Ship Captain has some connection to that house.  Given that each Great House is supposed to have a different look, I wonder which house the guards belonged to, House of Kol maybe?  Though the captain had the House of T'Kuvma uniform on, as did the Klingons on the Glenn, and the Klingons who boarded Lorca's shuttle IIRC.

And finally, the poor little Tardigrade creature...  Looks like it has the ability to jump on its own, which explains how it got on board the Glenn.

Well that ship wasn't shown in the link you posted before.  :P

Interesting though that there's a memorial for the ships lost at the binary stars in the mess hall.

Connor Trinner as the dad?  Hmm.... Interesting.  Don't really know who any of the other people listed are, nor have I seen or even heard of anything they've been in, except for a few bit parts.

And in that article I found this article that details the Stargate Command streaming service.  It seems to be a combination of fan comunity (with quizzes and such) and streaming service.  The other content is free, but you'll have to pay a one time $20 fee to watch anything (and that only covers it until around the middle May 2018).

I'm pretty sure that's the T'Plana-Hath you're talking about.  In fact, in the Flare article you linked to (which is where I got the Star link from), the image is big enough to read "USS T'Plana-Hath" on the hull of the ship you're describing.

I think the death toll was for the initial day of the war, cant remember what the conversation on the shuttle was exactly but I doubt the klingons decided to call it a day after kicking starfleets ass.

During the previews I could have sworn they said that the death toll was "8,000 in the first two days of the war".  But IIRC during the episode, the female prisoner said "my cousin died on the Europa, along with 8,000 others there" (or something to that effect).

Just rewatched the scene, & I think the implication is that it's a total for the past 6 months.

That would make more sense.

-Speaking of Tellerites I hope we get to see some.

Excellent episode so far.  The show has me really hooked so far.

Personally I'd rather see some Andorians.  But yeah, it would be nice to see some Tellerites.

Oh, and I found this which has some concept art of the Starfleet ships at the Battle of the Binary Stars (click "expand" to see them).  The Yeager looks like a predecessor to the Prometheus, the Europa looks like a cross between the Constellation and Miranda, and the Edison looks like a predecessor to the Nebula but without the pod.  Oh and there was a U.S.S. Shran, but we don't have an image of it.  The Yeager has elements from the Shenzhou, namely the fins in the back, and it appears that the bridge is at the very edge of the saucer.  The Europa and Edison's nacelles look similar to the Discovery's.

Oh another thing, they're using TOS style rectangular "tapes", though they're thinner.

Well I broke down and signed up for CBS All Access...  Some reactions of mine to the discussions already posted...

I liked that the Klingons spoke in their native tongue and that it was subtitled, expect for the few instances when it was necessary to speak English...and even then it wasn't good english. It was obviously learned as a second language, not like any of the other klingons we've seen. These guys aren't going to be quoting Shakespear any time soon, and that alone makes them more alien, which is a welcome breath of fresh air.

I too liked that the Klingons spoke Klingon and had accents when speaking English.  I'll chalk that up to these Klingons actually taking the time and effort to learn English while previous shows' Klingons were speaking Klingon but the universal translator was in effect.

I liked that the overall visual style of the show felt modern, though obviously toned down from the almost harsh sterile visual style of the most recent movies. It's like they looked at the movies and at ENT and said, ok, let's bridge these two styles and take the best of each, while updating it all to look amazing on telivision. Which it did. The uniforms...I like them for what they are, and maybe they'll get closer to ToS later on, so that's not a huge deal. They look shard and only super nerds like us care that the Enterprise Delta is now the standard Starfleet/Federation symbol.

Actually there is some evidence to suggest that the delta was always meant to be for Starfleet as a whole.  Personally I love the uniforms and could care less if they start looking more like the TOS versions, though they likely will and that's cool too.  Actually the DSC/DIS uniforms look like an evolution of the ENT uniforms...

The space battle. I found it lacking overall and I hope future battles are depth. There were moments I liked, such as the Europa saving the Shenzhou and then just being gutted by that cloaked Klingon ship. That being said, man it the space scenes looked nice. As good if not better than any of the new Trek movies.

Yeah the Battle at the Binary Stars was cool, but a little too short.  We didn't get all that good of a look at most of the new ships.  Plus I think a death toll of 8,126 is a little on the high side, even if we assume that the ships of this time used less automation and thus had more crew than later ships.

Episode 3 Context is for Kings. Definitely felt like it had a Section 31 vibe to it, or at least Lorca is acting on behalf of S31. The creature from the Discovery sister ship Glenn looked like an overgrown/aggressive Tardigrade. I liked this episode.

I think my favorite part was "Did he just shoosh you?"

There's definitely some Section 31 vibes going on.  I bet that's what this whole "black badge" thing is about.  And yes, the "Did he just shoosh you?" was awesome.  First its funny then its horrifying as the tartigrade monster attacks him.

From Episode 4. I figured the macro Tardigrade was on the Glenn for a reason, but didn't know it was an integral part of the spore drive. Didn't see Landry's death coming...or necessary even? It felt forced. The inner and outer rings on of the saucer do spin for the spore drive jump! However, what I found odd was the Discovery barrel rolling to perform the jump, but not rolling when coming out of the jump? While odd, it's still something neat! Got to see quite a bit and I'm glad.

Re Landry: Yeah, WTF was she thinking fraking with that thing?
Loved the spinning saucer, which explains the odd gap design.
As for the barrel roll, I assume that's some effect of how this drive works.  The ship is getting pulled into some sort of anomaly or something so it looks like its rolling over.  If you think about it, that's what happened to the Glenn's crew and what the marks on the hull were.  The "anomaly" rolled them over. 

BTW, that has to be the most gruesome thing ever on any Trek series...
Spore drive seems like a silly name, but whatever.  When Lorica was demonstrating how the spores work to Burnham, was anyone else thinking "Iconian gates"?
Oh and Stamets kind of reminds me of McKay on Atlantis, but with less whining, kind of like how he was in the earlier seasons...

Trivia, Games, & Fun / Re: New SCN Collections thread
« on: October 03, 2017, 07:09:11 PM »
Well it turns out Toonami/Adult Swim have picked up the second season of Iron-Blooded Orphans, it airs this Saturday.

Trivia, Games, & Fun / Re: New SCN Collections thread
« on: September 26, 2017, 07:00:22 PM »
What makes it brutal, is that they don't use energy weapons, and most of the combat is close range. I think the most brutal death is when Mikazuki steps on the cockpit of a mobile suit, and the pilot's blood splashes out.

I love how Gjallarhorn's forces are all pomp and ceremony. Everything is a pose, with rules and etiquette to combat, while Tekkadan is "there's the enemy, kill them".

I believe the second season is coming to the US soon. The series ended months ago in Japan. Though there are rumors of a third season, or even a movie.

Ah.  It's been a while since I've looked into it.  IIRC that death you mentioned was the same episode so... violently showed the difference between Gjallarhorn and Tekkadan's fighting style.  I hope Adult Swim/Toonami pick up the second season soon, although that means I'll have to find the time to rewatch season one.

Personally though I think IBO and Gundam 00 might be tied for my favorite series in the franchise, but that might be some nostalgia talking.  Unicorn looks amazing and at there's some good moments, but it just goes off the rails with the Newtype magic at the end, plus having not watched most of the Universal Century shows means I missed out on all the little Easter egg references.  Basically all I've seen is bits and pieces of the original series, 0080, 0083, and 8th MS Team, and I barely remember 0083.

General Sci-Fi Discussion / Re: Fox Channel's The Orville $Spoilers$
« on: September 26, 2017, 09:57:17 AM »
I really enjoyed the latest episode.  It was like a cross between TNG: "The Measure of a Man" and that episode with the androgynous aliens.

While I don't really mind the pop culture references (for a specific example, the doctor telling the tactical officer that she would be her Obi-Wan), it is a a bit odd in some ways.  I have no problem whatsoever with modern pop culture surviving into the future, in fact almost the reverse since the only thing that seems to survive on Star Trek is what we now consider classical music (barring the Kelvin Timeline movies).   But someone saying "I'll be your Obi-Wan" 500 years from now would be like people now making references to The Odyssey or The Epic of Gilgamesh, say "I'll be your Athena" or something like that.  This isn't really a complaint more of a random nitpick/observation.

I very much enjoyed the first episode.  The production values are amazing, loved the binary system and Burnham's 'flyby' of the Klingon beacon.  I really like the Shenzhou, and its a shame she's going to get blown up.  The holographic communication system is nice although it seems way more advanced than the one used on that one episode of DS9.  I like characters so far.  I loved that Burnham's plan was to blow the neck off the Klingon ship, a possible nod to the "Cut her throat" line in Beyond perhaps?  I wonder if Voq is "The Albino" from that DS9 episode, or perhaps his father?  The title sequence very, very slightly reminded me of the sequence from Game of Thrones, mostly the blueprint images reminded me of the location building parts and the music had a few vaguely similar notes.

Some observations:
-This is the first time partial settings have been mentioned for phasers.  Specifically when Capt. Georgiou was blasting through the bedrock in the well she used a setting of 13.5.
-The phaser rifle has way more settings that the weapons on TOS seemed to, maybe even the full 16 that TNG era weapons have.  Settings are controlled by a dial.  When firing (at least at setting 13.5) there is a charge delay, with the two smaller barrels lighting up.
-The hand phaser appears to have a glowy bit on the top.
-Per Burnham's log the encounter with the Klingons takes place May 11, 2256, a Sunday (how nice of them to translate the Stardate for us).
-Saru has some sort of retractable frill on the back of his head.
-When the Torchbearer's bat'leth went through him, his blood was pinkish.
-The Klingons destroyed a Vulcan ship 240 years ago at H'Atoria.  Ever since then until diplomatic relations were established Vulcans fired first when encountering Klingons.  STO players may recognize H'Atoria as the ice planet from "The Ultimate Klingon" mission, its also where Worf was governor in the alt-future of "All Good Things".  Also that means that this encounter took place in 2016.
-In the "This Season on Discovery" previews, one of the Starfleet ships looked like a little like a predecessor for the Nebula-class.

Trivia, Games, & Fun / Re: New SCN Collections thread
« on: September 24, 2017, 08:42:01 AM »
Of all the Gundams I've watched, Iron-Blooded Orphans is definitely the most brutal with the violence.  Sure its one thing to watch Wing Zero vaporize a hundred Leos with a buster rifle blast, its another thing entirely watching a guy get crushed in a mobile suit cockpit by a giant mace.

It's the most recent of the Gundam series.  AFAIK the second season is still airing in Japan.

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