Author Topic: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts  (Read 7891 times)

Offline bmitchell64

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Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« on: February 20, 2007, 08:52:40 PM »
This is my concept for a Starfighter Carrier in the 24th Century.  It carries specially designed crafts that are capable of faster than warp performance, which is based on a nonstandard warp dynamics (i.e. multi-field pulse drive)

This ship represents the strategic capability of Starfleet with high performance craft and independent, extended long-range, warp-capable missile launchers.

The starfighter carrier is powered by a breakthrough development - a unified drive system (the system used preprocessed matter, known as neutral matter as the fuel for the MARS and fusion reactors, which allows the warp and impulse drives to be combined into a single drive.)  A backup standard drive is available for the impulse system.  The unified drive makes it possible to operate without the highly volatile antimatter (matter and antimatter conversions takes place in the pre-injection stage of the MARS), and provides a less contaminated residue.  The unified drive can provide 170-220 percent greater power output than a standard warp drive system.

Offline Rick King AIFD

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 09:24:27 PM »
First of all....Let me the the first to welcome you to the SCN. Glad to have you among us. I like your concept very much. Here not too long ago, we had a ship design competition for Utility type ships and this would have fit nicely in that.

I look forward to seeing what else you come up with and show us.

Welcome  ;D
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 02:54:07 AM »
Is it possible that I have seen the carrier before, and only a few days ago? It looks so familiar.

Anyway, while I see no basic flaws with the carrier, it may be possible to move a bit away from the chunky "Space: Above and Beyond" style. The fighters are quite reminiscent of stealth aircraft designs, but without changing the basic design a few more Trek-typical designs will make them look great.

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 05:41:03 PM »
I apologize for the crudeness of the art work (only so much possible with Paintbrush.)  I submitted this to JOAT, but expected it to be discarded since it is not of the same quality as the posted work.  I attached a "Generation of Ships" that represent the development towards the previously posted Starfighter Carrier.  The earlier ship is a Fortress Starcruiser (equivalent to a battleship and aircraft carrier, though I don't like using the term battleship or dreadnought.)  The type of craft used before the starfighter were Aerostar Fighters and Corvette craft (both capable of high warp via high output pulse warp systems.)  The Ullyseys represents the transition to hyper-warp (i.e. faster than warp) tactical craft.

The family of ships shown are to fill a void I always felt was missing from Star Trek.  The aircraft carrier of today are an operational and strategic asset which help maintain order because of its capability to overwhelm other navies without aircraft carriers.  The Federation challenge would be to maintain order with technological advantages over multiple threats on the border (Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, etc...) 

Another attachment is a special mission scout for deep penetration operations; it is a craft with can achieve high warp and limited hyper warp.

Thanks for the feedback...I am happy to share my ideas.

Offline Atolm

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 06:14:48 PM »
Its not about the quality of the finished work...its about the quality of the Idea/Ideology and its execution
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Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 07:22:27 PM »
Cool designs. I'd try to blend the body into the wings a bit more. Have you checked out SFM (Star Fleet Museum)? They have two TOS era fighters. Perhaps you could carry concepts from them over onto your designs. Welcome aboard, Mitch!
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Offline TNC

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 07:49:30 PM »
It looks nice for a carrier, though it could be a little less "chunky".

And about its specs... No phaser arrays before the Dominion War, that seems a little off.  Maybe give it 6-8 phaser arrays and then jump up to a higher number after the war starts.
“There’s a time for a scalpel and a time for a hammer.  It’s hammer time.” – Shaw – Person of Interest – “Aletheia”

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2007, 07:37:49 PM »
The information I presented to JOAT included a explanation for not having phasers in the base design.  The unified warp drive system operates more effiiciently than the standard drive and is able to maintain continuous warp (theoretically) for the life cycle of the reactors (7-10 years).  The Starfighter Carrier will maintain warp in operations and will only drop out of warp in secure locations (as established by its escorts or at a starbase.)  The primary tactical craft are all capable of launch and recovery at warp through the development of a tachion field separator and capture field in the forward launch chamber and the aft recovery chamber.  Due to this capability, the need for phasers was seen as unnecessary.  The long-rang PDMS has the firepower to compensate for phasers and can be used at warp.  Additionally, the escort ships had the primary role of close combat protection (1x Sovereign, 2x Nebula, 4-6x Intrepid, and two attached strike teams consisting of 2-3 cruisers/destroyers or Defiant)

The polaron beam became the exception to the rule for the starfighter carrier, since it can be used effectively at warp.  The threat posed by Dominion ships, especially the close combat capability, required a return to the need for phasers on this design.  The phasers are intended for defense, but are fully capable of offensive action.

The predecessor to the starfighter carrier did have a robust phaser array and is still in use with Starfleet Reserve - Ullyseys Class

Offline Rick King AIFD

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2007, 07:44:27 PM »
Looking over the whole thing....one question comes to mind.....Does the Ulysses function as the saucer section of the larger craft? Or are we looking at two distinct indivdual ships?

If this is two distinct ships....then we need to see some kind of design lineage.
........If I have failed, then I have failed while daring greatly, henceforth my place shall never be found amoung those timid souls who know not the thrill of victory or bitter defeat....

Offline TNC

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 08:24:01 PM »
Well at least you have an explanation for it not having phasers. 

I like the detail in the diagrams.  8)
“There’s a time for a scalpel and a time for a hammer.  It’s hammer time.” – Shaw – Person of Interest – “Aletheia”

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 09:30:38 PM »
Looking over the whole thing....one question comes to mind.....Does the Ulysses function as the saucer section of the larger craft? Or are we looking at two distinct indivdual ships?

If this is two distinct ships....then we need to see some kind of design lineage.

The Ullyseys is a previous generation known as the Fortress Starcruiser.  I will do a specs on it soon.

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2007, 11:55:37 AM »
Official Feedback Posting: "Well, the ship fits the name that's obvious. But with almost 2km it's too big; the command module is as big as an Intrepid class . The design is also very basic, with not so much variation; it basicly is a box with warp nacelles and a saucer. Head over to the A&D forum so you can expand a bit on it."

I guess I will just keep my ideas to myself... :'(

Offline shran

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2007, 12:17:40 PM »
Don't go sulking like that. It does not mean your design is bad, it means that the design can be improved. it does not mean this design has shortcomings, it means there is room for improvements on this design. So, start working on it.
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And gave him a pack on his meeter.

Offline Rick King AIFD

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2007, 05:16:06 PM »
bmitchell64.....I cannot begin to tell you how much negative feedback I have gotten on some of my ship designs. I also cannot begin to tell you how much positive feedback I have gotten over the same designs. I mean, early on, I came into the forum asking about a ship idea that merged the two genres of Trek and Harry Potter !!! Let's just say that not a few people thought I was totally loony.

But here is the point: Any feedback you recieve, negative or positive is meant in the best of intentions and with the thoughts of improving our collective skills in ship design and sci-fi design.

Take the negative in stride, Take the positive in stride, and in the words of Tim Gunn of Project Runway......Carry on.
........If I have failed, then I have failed while daring greatly, henceforth my place shall never be found amoung those timid souls who know not the thrill of victory or bitter defeat....

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007, 06:41:37 PM »
Don't go sulking like that. It does not mean your design is bad, it means that the design can be improved. it does not mean this design has shortcomings, it means there is room for improvements on this design. So, start working on it.
I won't abandon my ideas nor will I stop visiting the site for inspiration from others.  I like the site because it is a portal for other folks ideas.  I submit my ideas to show how I see the Star Trek universe, within and beyond canon.  i will continue to share my ideas, like the other postings on the site and will welcome suggestions.  My main reason for posting is to share my ideas with fellow Trekkers.  ;)

Attached to this email is one last rendition of my Zeus Class. ;D

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Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2007, 12:40:08 PM »
This attachment is related to the first generation of Fortress Starcruisers (see post with "Generations"); the Jovian was a short-lived class and the only vessel to have a dual role as a support base and warp-capable ship.  The Utopian era before the Romulan conflict allowed for the maintenance and operation of such a vessel among the cooperative societies (aka Terran Federation), but the situation after the Romulan conflict made it impossible to continue using the Jovian as a warp vessel (more resources were needed for the new generation of security vessels, security space stations, and the expanded colonization programs); along with the withdrawl of support for such a major projects due to the tension created among other societies (i.e. Romulans).  The Jovian had its warp drive removed and was relegated to a more traditional role as a strategic command post for the fleet headquarters.  The original ideal had envisioned the construction of over 20 Jovians, but only eight were built (to include two by the Romulans; one was disassembled for use as a defense network for the Romulan's strategic fleet headquarters, which was the location of the last battle during the Romulan conflict.)  The newly established UFP used the six Jovians in the five designated security zones along the perimeter of UFP space and the one as the operational headquarters for Starfleet Command (forward) near Wolf 359.  The last Jovian was retired in 2309 as more Space docks were built as fleet support facilities and the  role of the fleet headquarters were transferred to smaller headquarters.

For all its size, the Jovian was too much to maintain and came to life at the wrong time; the Jovian would never see its true purpose fulfilled as an explorer of the galaxy.

Offline woz

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2007, 01:28:42 PM »
nice concept, even you make all those generation.
And concept about chameleon generator in viper craft is definitely great idea. What is it for? I presume it's new concept for camouflage?

Offline Tyr

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2007, 05:38:22 PM »
I think they look too simplistic as is, but of course that can be taken care of with more detailing.  But when they are all plain in both shape and low detail level, there isn't much feedback I can think of.

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2007, 09:18:14 AM »
nice concept, even you make all those generation.
And concept about chameleon generator in viper craft is definitely great idea. What is it for? I presume it's new concept for camouflage?

The original thought for the viper is that it has a masking system for disguising it EM and gravimetric/warp signature during deep pentration operations.  My premise is that even though the UFP does not have cloaking technology, the ships can use variations.  the standard starship has a diffusion system, which can distort the EM and gravimetric/warp signature to reduce detection at long-range.  The system, however does not work effectively at close range (within one light minute).  The chameleon system offers an alternative to this in that the viper will conduct surveillance in dense regions (along space-lanes or within solar systems) and can use background signature (other ships or stellar bodies) to disguise its presence at close range.  For example, if the viper is operating within a debris field for solar system then it can blend in with the asteroids; if in close range of commercial freighters, then it can match the signature of the nearby ships.)  This is not a perfect system, which means the crew has to be creative and situationally aware to avoid detection, along with using the maximum standoff range for sensor monitoring of the target.

Offline woz

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2007, 12:24:59 PM »
^1 light minute.., just around earth-mars distance, is that right?

So viper could replicated her appearance into other 3d visual image if in a close distance with other ship llike 'mirage tank' in C&C RA2, and the other option she could blended with environment background (mean like cloaked but just visually) if no other ship within reachable distance (>1 light minute). Aren't my interpretations right?




Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2007, 11:35:44 AM »
^1 light minute.., just around earth-mars distance, is that right?

So viper could replicated her appearance into other 3d visual image if in a close distance with other ship llike 'mirage tank' in C&C RA2, and the other option she could blended with environment background (mean like cloaked but just visually) if no other ship within reachable distance (>1 light minute). Aren't my interpretations right?





The diffusion system (which basically scatters the EM and gravimetric signature into the ambient field works from one light minute and beyond (this is standard on all starships).  The difference between this and a cloak is that the cloak is a closed system that works (almost) effectively at long-range and close range (within one light minute).  The penalty (as stated in canon) is the extreme power requirement to bend light and contain the gravimetric signature makes it impossible (with some exceptions) to use weapons.  The diffusion system is an open system that only modifies the relative emissions of the ship; no high power requirement and the ship can use its weapons (though there is a chance of compromise without additional countermeasures).

The chameleon adds an additional layer of "stealth" by using background signature and emulating them.  This system can prevent detection within 1 light minute (in fact, that is when the viper would use the system) and is not a heavy energy demand.  The problem is that the use of weapons will expose the craft, therefore, it is only used when conducting surveillance or supporting special operations teams. ;)

Offline woz

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2007, 12:05:15 PM »
got it, nice concept indeed...

could you install that system to my ship http://www.treknology.org/new/normandy-sad6.jpg Dr. bmitchell64? kidding... ;D

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2007, 12:36:42 PM »
     The Andromeda Class was initially conceived as being the center piece for the Explorer Program (a deep space exploration endeavor founded my members of the Consortium for Interstellar Exploration, these same members would eventually form the United Federation of Planets).  The Andromeda Class involved the melding of many advanced concepts for ship's structure and design, warp dynamics, sensor engineering, and power management.  The great hope was to create an interstellar fleet to explore the deepest reaches of the galaxy (as defined by mid 22nd century mapping).  However, events would preclude the original concept due to increased tension between members of the CIE and the Romulan Republic.  Though the Romulans allowed an independent system within the Republic to particpate in the program, the obvious agenda was to maintain an avenue to build relations with the Vulcans and keep track of the Terrans.  As the overlapping regions became more unstable, several incident occurred that represented a threat to the security of CIE colonies, settlements, and trade routes.  An agreement was made to arm the Andromeda Class with high-impact phase cannons and photon torpedoes, but as the situation with the Romulans became more perilous, it was finally decided to redesignate the Andromeda.  The fledgling Starfleet recognized the need for a command and control ship for fleet operations.  The unique senor capabilities and versatility of the Andromeda Class made it a favorable platform for this role, and with this designation to the Fortress Cruiser, the final armament request was authorized: long-range missiles (capable of carrying multiple photonic warheads or the chambered fusion device, aka the "planet devastator"); warp capable fast corvette strike craft; and sub-light aerospace fighters (eventually replaced by the first generation of warp capable Aerostar).  The Andromeda, initially used as a support/command ship during the early part of the war, eventually became the lead vessel for fleet operations.  Its presence at critical moments during a campaign enabled Starfleet to defeat numerically superior Romulan fleets due to the long-range sensors and the devastating impact of the missiles and strike craft.

     Eventually, the newly established United Federation of Planets authorized Starfleet to improve the capabilities of the Andromeda, which lead to the third and fourth generation.  The expansion program was nearly as resource intensive as the initial building.  The improved Andromeda boasted an extended long range sensor system and missile system, improved strike corvettes and more versatile Aerostar fighters.  The phased cannons were replaced the a one-of-a-kind track phaser cannon.  The long surface structure housed a magnetic track for the high output phasers and also allowed for more efficient power transfer to the phaser cannons.  This phaser concept partly lead to the development of planar phaser arrays in the 24th century.

     The original dream for the Andromeda would not be seen again until the development of the Galaxy Class, a new generation of Explorer ships.  Its development was marred by the unfortunate realities of interstellar conflict, but its impact on the Alpha quadrant would shape the interstellar society of the 22nd and 23 century.

The graphics show the original Andromeda class (post Fortress modifications); an interior cross section for the 2nd generation (excuse the paintbrush blocks due to enlargement); and the improved Andromeda class, which served during the mid to late 23rd century.

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2007, 01:13:29 PM »
     The 24th century showed the need for a strategic platform like the Andromeda Class but more robust due to the size and resource requirements of the Starfigher tactical crafts (this would be satisfied with the development of the Starfighter Carrier - Thor Class and Zeus Class).  However, the early 24th century lacked a suitable replacement for the Andromeda Class (4th Generation).  The interim solution was to allow one last modification to the Andromeda's 100+ year old design.  Unlike the early modification, this engineering project involved a renovation about equivalent to the building of a new ship.  The level of modification lead to the decision to decommission the Andromeda Class and establish the Ulysses Class Fleet Attack Carrier.  The Ulysses would possess the type of technology being developed for the Ambassador Class Heavy Cruiser and have the ability to upgrade to the next generation of starships (Galaxy/Nebula Class).  Its space still was small for the emerging starfighter designs, but it had the capability to move to a crisis and perform like its namesake did during the Romulan conflict and the Klingon border conflicts.  The eventual development of the Starfighter Carriers, however, overshadowed this last generation of direct engagement strategic platforms.  The Starfighters Carriers would rely more on standoff  and strategic maneuvering, as opposed to the Andromeda's and Ulysses' use of brute force.  As of the late 24th century, the Ulysses remains on active service with Starfleet Reserve and is still called upon to support the fleet in times of crisis.  The eventual retirement of the Ulysses is scheduled for the end of the 24th century, but, like the Phoenix, it always seems to find a new life.

The original 16 Andromedas built before the Romulan conflict lead to the development of the Ulysses Class.  One of the Andromedas was lost during the final battle against the Romulans (the final approach to the Romulan Theater Fleet Planetary Command), but the remaining 15 survived up to transition from Andromeda Class to Ulysses Class.  The Ulysses Class consist of six of the Andromeda hulls, as for the remaining hulls - six were modified to the Emperor Class Command Assault Cruiser, and three (Andromeda, Perseus, Cassiopeia) were permanent decommissioned from Starfleet.  The last three Andromedas were refitted to Explorer ships (non-Starfleet standard) and given to the Federation Research Authority.  This action was intended as a symbol of hope for reestablishing the interstellar exploration program. 

The graphics show the Ulysses Class Fleet Attack Carrier, Emperor Class Command Assault Cruiser, and the FRA Andromeda Explorer Ship

Added - the graphic is related to the first and second generation; the original warp reactor based on a variation of the Vulcan ring drive system (the reactor was replaced with a more traditional Terran design in the third generation Andromeda.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 02:24:25 PM by bmitchell64 »

Offline bmitchell64

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Re: Starfleet (Alternative Concept) - Starfighter Carrier and Crafts
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2007, 01:43:28 PM »
This final post is to close out the Strategic Fleet presentation.

     The Thor Class, first introduced during the early 24th Century, originally used the same type of MARS and Warp Drive concepts used on starships like the Ambassador Class (though much larger), which was the reason for the girth of the initial design (only two would be built before modifications to install the Unified Drive and Advanced Chambered MARS).  The second generation would become the standard for the Thor Class and the addition of the long range defense missile pod (based on the same system on the Zeus Class) added to its lethality.

     The Zeus Class, the current generation of Starfighter Carrier, represents the blending of the most advanced technologies for starship design (technology used in vessels like the Defiant, Intrepid, Prometheus, and Sovereign Class).  The limited number of Zeus had phaser arrays added during the Dominion War, but, for the most part, neither of the Starfighter Carriers use phasers due to the transient signature that compromises the sensor countermeasures (these ships operate at long range) and the primary operational posture of the Starfighter Carrier - continuous warp outside of controlled security zones.

     These two Starfighter Carriers will continue to represent the strategic strength of Starfleet and are expected to be the linch pin to the strategic plan for maintaining a safe and secure Alpha Quadrant.

The graphics are of the first generation Thor Class, the second generation with improved engineering, and the ships of the Strategic Plan for Starfleet Command.