Author Topic: [canon fodder]Post article ideas  (Read 64466 times)

Offline Bernd

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[canon fodder]Post article ideas
« on: October 03, 2007, 12:31:13 PM »
Welcome to the Canon Fodder Forum!

If you have a theory to explain inconsistencies or if you are going to write up your own timeline, you can post a short outline here, and you will get feedback whether it is possible to include it on the site.

Please go to the site at http://canonfodder.ex-astris-scientia.org/ to learn more about its scope and requirements.

Offline Chemahkuu

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 12:33:47 PM »
Ohhh neat.  How about my Warp Drive Article?

Offline Bernd

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 12:39:37 PM »
You may need to tie in a couple of canon references. But yes, it could fit in.

Offline woz

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 01:32:02 PM »
First, allow me to congrats for this Canon Fodder new thread lounge...  :)

second, I have a question not an idea about what's consisted in CF site, regarding part of starship > fixing the wrong
(should I make a new thread? but let me write up here for once)

OK let's start the topic. In CF I found this theory:

USS Zhukov NCC-26136 - Named for the founder of UESPA and scientist who pioneered the new Soyuz program under its banner, Alexi Zhukov.

...hence I search Zhukov on wikipedia and I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhukov, and I personally called his name fit for Starfleet's starship named after his name, because he was involved in WW II as (if could say) a good guy side, he involved to captured Berlin

EDIT: Nevermind, I already got an answer on here http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/name_origins2.htm, sorry guys for the post.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 01:59:56 PM by woz »

Offline U.S.S. Da Vinci

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2007, 02:37:28 PM »
You gotta watch it woz. If it ain't on Wikipedia/MA, try EAS. Bernd has a lot of stuff in there.

Maybe we could find someone better for the name. But that is for another thread.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 02:40:58 PM by U.S.S. Da Vinci »
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2007, 03:29:03 PM »
That is the basic idea. Everything that I can't find at MA and that would be too long-winded and speculative to be explained at EAS may go to Canon Fodder.

Offline GStone

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2007, 07:55:08 AM »
So, what happened to the memory alpha forum?
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Offline Chemahkuu

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2007, 08:10:44 AM »
So, what happened to the memory alpha forum?

Read the announcement in the announcement forum.

Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2007, 09:56:56 AM »
So, what happened to the memory alpha forum?

They have their own talk pages now, and on one of them I found a discussion that said "why do we still have links back to the MA forum at SCN when no one even uses it anymore?" And since the MA forum gets less action than a nun, I'd say it's rather redundant now. It got a lot of use when MA first started, but now it's unnecessary.

Offline Penta

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2008, 04:38:31 PM »
This board seems dead.

But surely there must be more inconsistencies...

But what to go at?

Offline Shik

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2008, 04:55:34 PM »
Anything. Everything.

Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2008, 05:59:16 PM »
I've always wondered if Cochrane REALLY was the first human to invent the warp drive. I know of a highly possible claim of a man in New Zealand that may quite possibly have beaten the Wright Brothers. Perhaps others were thinking along Cochrane's lines.
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Offline Penta

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 09:40:41 AM »
Debate of the Century:

Does Starfleet have a Marine Corps, yes or no? (If yes, WTF do they do during peacetime?) It's the most popular fanon bit ever, but I don't think I've ever heard it resolved canonically.

Offline CX

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 12:08:09 PM »
I don't think they did.  Yeah, there's Colonel West, but he was wearing a Starfleet Admiral's uniform so it doesn't make much sense.  I thought maybe Starfleet could've possibly created a Marine Corps or something like it during war time, and disband it during peace time, but this is based on nothing other than the existance of "Colonel" West. ;D
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Offline TNC

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 04:16:31 PM »
There could be a "Starfleet Army" or perhaps a "Federation Army" that mearly consists of groundtroops stationed on planets to defend from hostile invasion forces.  "Starfleet Tactical Forces" perhaps?  Or the uniforms the guys in a couple DS9 episodes were just ground combat uniforms and they were just regular Starfleet officers.  :-\
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Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 06:56:38 AM »
Does Starfleet have a Marine Corps, yes or no? (If yes, WTF do they do during peacetime?) It's the most popular fanon bit ever, but I don't think I've ever heard it resolved canonically.

Whether they are called the Starfleet Marines or not is a matter of debate since it has never been stated in canon, but there definitely are dedicated ground combat forces in both wartime and peacetime.

- In ENT they have the MACOs, which use Army/Marines ranks and are part of a separate military organization from Starfleet.

- In TMP there are guards aboard the Enterprise dressed in full combat armor including flak jackets and helmets. In non-canon background material for TMP the Arcturan clones are mentioned as often being used as ground forces for Starfleet.

- In TFF there was a special forces-like ground combat unit with their own uniforms and equipment including foldable riot shields. In non-canon background material for TFF these units were mentioned as being Marines.




- In TUC Colonel West holds an Army/Marines type rank and was planning a ground rescue mission on Rura Penthe. Colonel West's character was stated in non-canon background material as being based on Marine Colonel Oliver North. Colonel West's Admiral-equivalent rank could be accurate and the Colonel title be a form of address, as in the British "Colonel of the Regiment" which can be a General.

- In DS9 'Nor the Battle to the Strong' and 'The Siege of AR-558' we see dedicated ground combat units referred to as "ground forces" in dialogue who have their own unique style of uniforms and armored flak jackets.



As far as what they could do in peacetime, they could serve in much the same way the modern day Marines and special operations forces do:

- Embassy protection abroad.
- Security forces and boarding parties aboard ships.
- Peacekeeping operations.
- Relief efforts.
- Search and rescue operations.
- Rapid reaction force.
- Hostage rescue.
- VIP or asset protection.
- Presidential transport and protection.
- Training of domestic and foreign military and security forces.

Images from here:
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWground-defense.html
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 07:10:10 AM by Bond, James Bond »

Offline Penta

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 09:48:16 AM »
That makes the security dept aboard vessels seem irrelevant?

As I think about it, what makes the most sense and fits with Starfleet's canonical pacifism and such:

Starfleet Security (which DS9: "Paradise Lost" and "Homefront" was supposed to show as enforcing martial law on Earth; They just ran out of money before filming, I think?) is the home of both ground forces and vessel security departments. If it goes bang, SFSec owns the people that directly make it so, generally speaking.

All Starfleet security personnel are trained in ground forces ops. Most are assigned to the duties we're familiar with.

However, there are units organized as ground forces units, which actually carry the designation "marines" (as in, 1st Battalion of Starfleet Marines, etc). Personnel transfer often between vessel and ground units, though sticking to the "dirtdogs" for an entire career is not unknown. Also, in a nod to history, each security unit is officially designated a detachment, squad, platoon, etc. of a larger (administrative) unit of "marines".

But I doubt we'd see a separate "Starfleet Marines". Too martial for the utopia.

Offline Chemahkuu

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 01:48:50 PM »
In classical Christian Mythology, even Heaven is guarded by legions of Archangels, armed and free to commit the sin of murder in the name of God.  So please, the "paradise/utopia" thing is getting old.

So umm, a Human organisation that utilises a large number of "science" vessels armed to the teeth and frequently wandering into the unknown usually into a direct threat to the ship or said organisation? hell yes they would have at least some defensive measures such as a separate contingent of trained personnel.

Offline Bernd

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 06:33:43 AM »
I like the idea of a "Federation Army" much more than that of Starfleet being the only peacekeeping and law-enforcing force. Unfortunately this would not be supported by canon evidence.

Offline Penta

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 11:20:26 AM »
Also, Kirk in TOS (I forget where, perhaps when they go back to 1969?) states that Starfleet is a combined service - generally taken to mean that it's like the Israeli military in not really (as of the 1960s anyway!) having separate services such as a navy, army, etc.

Which in my mind militates against there being even a starfleet marine corps as a separate force, as you lose a lot of the advantages (in an administrative/bureaucratic sense) of a combined service.

Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 11:29:44 AM »
Why assume it's a separate force though? Starfleet Intelligence is not a separate force. Starfleet Security is not a separate force.  The very fact that it has Starfleet in the name would indicate that it too would not be a separate force. The ground forces and shipboard defense teams shown in Trek (with the exception of the pre-Federation MACOs) were always shown as being part of Starfleet itself, regardless of whether they're called Marines or not. Even today the Marine Corps are a "combined service" with the US Navy.


Offline Chemahkuu

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 01:15:33 PM »
Kirk was trying to brush off the mans questions since he would have to explain a space faring organisation to someone from the past, it was just simpler for him to imply one unified military or defensive service.

Offline Bernd

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2008, 02:59:13 AM »
If I remember correctly, Christopher assumed that the Enterprise was a (US) Navy ship. Kirk then mentioned the UESPA, referring to it as a "combined service". In this context "combined service" probably means that UESPA is a multinational institution unlike the US Navy.

Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2008, 10:27:38 AM »
Either interpretation can be correct.

In the original British parlance, combined services or combined operations meant units or missions composed of personnel from different branches of the British military. In American terminology though, combined services and operations means units or missions composed of personnel from multiple nations (like the multinational Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force). Over time the American usage has become the standard in the British military (especially as joint peacekeeping missions became more and more frequent), though when Star Trek was on the original British interpretation was still frequently used.

So, Kirk's references to being a "combined service" could have been putting the emphasis on either the "US" part and saying it was a multinational force, or it could have been putting the emphasis on the "Navy" part and saying it was a combination of air, sea, land, and space forces.

Offline GStone

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Re: Post article ideas
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2008, 01:58:12 PM »
My vote is that they're Starfleet Security. Just as a startship has multiple departments, so does Security. They're connected to regular starfleet via the cross training with different departments, like policing/a little diplomancy, weapons training, flying ships, engineering, etc., but are less about exploration and has more emphasis on weapons training, close quarters combat, improvised weapon making (both organic and technological), hostage rescue, which also connects them to Starfleet Intelligence, but probably with less administrative (information processing) and undercover operations than SI.
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