Author Topic: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)  (Read 12779 times)

Offline TNC

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Another good episode.

Great Reference: Tigh, Tyrol, and Tory meet in Weapons Locker 1701D.  ;D

Anders volunteered for Starbuck's mission, we get a look at the ship she was given (and see a couple vipers parked on the hull).  Other members of the mission: Selix, Gaeta, and Helo.  Starbuck's been making random course changes and people are getting fed up.  Also Starbuck uses a tablet style notebook PC in one scene (probably the first time we've seen something like that on BSG), and there was a touch screen monitor that had "Enterprise" like buttons allong the bottom of the screen. 

Lee is the Quorum rep. for Caprica now, and Zarek is the VP.  The Quorum is getting irritated with Roslin's secrecy and whatnot.

And the ending...  Holy Frak!!!  Major spoilers!

Cavil tricked the Sixes, Eights, and Twos into jumping into an ambush without a Resurrection ship and their baseship was blown up.  Boomer and Athena are probably the last two Eights.  Cally found out about her husband being a Cylon and tried to space herself and her baby.  Then Tory shows up, talks her out of it, takes the baby, smacks Cally across the Viper launch bay, and then spaced her.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 09:20:42 PM by TNC »
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Offline Setekh

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 09:39:40 PM »
Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Cally!!!!!!!!

Offline Flagg

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 09:40:05 PM »
Now this episode sucked. The only good part is that we're down one annoying bitch that I've hated since season 2.

Offline mark

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 10:05:13 PM »
Big comeback in quality. Last episode must have suffered from being a bridge into this one. I don't entirely buy that Cally would go suicidal without at least leaving some evidence behind about Tyrol and co being cylons, but we'll see.

However... I wasn't aware that the FTL drive could go out of ressurrection ship range in just one jump. Even if the ressurrection ship jumped in the opposite direction... it still worked from a dramatic standpoint, but rough around the edges.
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Offline TNC

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 10:07:50 PM »
However... I wasn't aware that the FTL drive could go out of ressurrection ship range in just one jump. Even if the ressurrection ship jumped in the opposite direction... it still worked from a dramatic standpoint, but rough around the edges.

My guess is that the FTL drive didn't go out, just that the Cavil faction took over the ship and stopped it before it got to the ambush site.
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Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2008, 10:59:51 PM »
I liked the episode over-all, but I'm really confused why they fucked Cally and Tory up so bad.  I'm also confused how Adam is able to give Tyrol that talk at the end, because unless Tory actually said something and admitted to killing Cally, how would anyone know that she's dead and not simply kidnapped or something.  I thought it was pretty frakked up that they had Tory kill her like that, but I understand the cold logic of why she did it.  Still kind fo sad, because I used to like Cally.

And speaking of frakked up, I see Starbuck is still plenty frakked up.  Much like Cally, I haven't much liked her since the first season. :-\
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Offline mark

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 11:00:08 PM »
My guess is that the FTL drive didn't go out, just that the Cavil faction took over the ship and stopped it before it got to the ambush site.

I was talking about the range of the ressurrection ship. But who knows... after a whole first season of jumping, Starbuck made the distance of going back to Caprica seem rather subjective.
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Offline Flagg

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 11:00:56 PM »
CX, they think it's suicide.

Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 11:03:22 PM »
Right, but how do they know she's dead even?  Unless they have security footage, but then they'd see Tory's involvement.  Plus Tyrol's key wasn't in the airlock.  So someone coming upon the scene afterwards would see the airlock in launch position, but nothing to show why, unless Tory actually reset it, then there'd be no evidence of anything.
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Offline TNC

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 11:07:12 PM »
Tory may have made up the suicide story because otherwise they'd figure out what happened eventually.  :-\
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Offline Hobbes

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 11:33:16 PM »
Apparently Tory is embracing her cylon side more than others and allowing... succumbing to the dark side she is.  Makes me wonder if the human form cylons once maintained a greater sense of humanity but gained one hell of a superiority complex similar to what Tory seems to beginning to display.

This is definitely the season of cylon, so far that's the really interesting plot.  Who is the 5th, how will the 4 develop, the cylon civil war...

There's also Roslin becoming a dictator, Executive Order 112 is an example of that.  If I heard correctly it allows the executive branch to pick the judicial branch in such a way that basically puts it under her control without checks and balances.  I guess she did this in response to Baltar being found not guilty, she'd rather have a court she had control of to prevent this in the future, but it also allows for a situation where she can go all McCarthyism on people that oppose her.
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Offline Flagg

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 11:42:34 PM »
Right, but how do they know she's dead even?  Unless they have security footage, but then they'd see Tory's involvement.  Plus Tyrol's key wasn't in the airlock.  So someone coming upon the scene afterwards would see the airlock in launch position, but nothing to show why, unless Tory actually reset it, then there'd be no evidence of anything.

I think they can detect an airlock being opened.

Offline White Wolf

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2008, 09:42:00 AM »
Fuck. I missed it. 
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Offline Da Vinci

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2008, 11:12:15 AM »
Awesome episode. It seems to me the Cylon programming in Tory took over in self-preserval.


There's also Roslin becoming a dictator, Executive Order 112 is an example of that.  If I heard correctly it allows the executive branch to pick the judicial branch in such a way that basically puts it under her control without checks and balances.
Yes, that's what it boils down to. I feel this can't last much longer, something gotta break for Roslin soon.

Also, does anybody agree with me that the Quorum is the least organized 'parliament' ever?
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Offline The Daft Punk

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2008, 11:15:28 AM »
I'm not really sure how the new Quorum is organized. Presumably, the old, pre-Cylon attack Quorum had one (or maybe more) representative for each colony. Now, does it work the same way as before, or do members represent individual ships?
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Offline Da Vinci

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 11:16:42 AM »
Apparently they still represent the colonies in some way.



BTW, I love Cavill:

"Nihilistic punchline? I like that. But quite honestly, I'm feeling very serious, getting riddles with bullits affects me that way."

;D
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Offline USS Mariner

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2008, 01:30:23 PM »
Apparently Tory is embracing her cylon side more than others and allowing... succumbing to the dark side she is.  Makes me wonder if the human form cylons once maintained a greater sense of humanity but gained one hell of a superiority complex similar to what Tory seems to beginning to display.

I honestly don't think that's what's going on. Self-preservation is a human trait also, so blaming it on sleeper programming is a little hasty.

Tory had no other option than to "help" Cally, because even if she wasn't green-teed-out-of-her-mind, she's too fucking stupid to not jump to conclusions. She proposed to Tyrol for fuck's sake. Would you trust her to shut up about the four Cylons running around the ship that haven't done anything but help, or even knew about it till a few weeks ago? And what kind of riot would that cause in the fleet when news breaks out?

Besides, if she hadn't intervened, Tyrol would have lost his wife and his son, all thanks to Cally herself. Sure, Tory probably saw an opportunity to move in on Tyrol, but that because she's infatuated with the thrill of being RoboWhore (Fucking with Baltar and the conversation with Tyrol lead to this idea more so than your typical soap affairs.) She did also save their kid, which was totally unnecessary.

Like it or not, Tory isn't really the villain here. Neither is Cally (though she is a stupid druggie.)

Quote
This is definitely the season of cylon, so far that's the really interesting plot.  Who is the 5th, how will the 4 develop, the cylon civil war...

Saw that coming a mile away. Too bad the Sixes didn't. I do like the impression that the Centurions are begrudgingly working with the Sixes, and I suspect that it might end up that they are really just waiting for both sides to kill each other. I also notice the new chroming they have. Looks as if time has been good to them after all.

Quote
There's also Roslin becoming a dictator, Executive Order 112 is an example of that.  If I heard correctly it allows the executive branch to pick the judicial branch in such a way that basically puts it under her control without checks and balances.  I guess she did this in response to Baltar being found not guilty, she'd rather have a court she had control of to prevent this in the future, but it also allows for a situation where she can go all McCarthyism on people that oppose her.

Bushisms aside, this was obvious since "Crossroads". I betting that she'll attempt to turn Zarek and Lee in for treason either during or before the next Quorum session.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 01:32:33 PM by USS Mariner »
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Offline USS Mariner

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2008, 01:35:14 PM »
Tory may have made up the suicide story because otherwise they'd figure out what happened eventually.  :-\

She wanted to kill herself. Tory wouldn't even have to lie. I also doubt that anyone is going to doubt it because they'll find that Cally medicated herself to the point of paranoia, which will put the investigation to an end.

Besides, the fleet has one less moron to feed. Things are looking up for Humanity.
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hyperqube714

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2008, 01:44:03 PM »
i, for one, am glad that that snotty whiny bitch is dead.

Offline Alexzandyr

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2008, 02:45:31 PM »
I think they could have figured it out what happened considering that she attacked the chief just before she left and stole his key. For all we know tory managed to place the key back in the launch tube after killing cally. The doors are just slow enough that she could have gotten out in time i guess...idk.

Anyway, i didn't much care for this episode...felt weird. The scenes with Cally just seemed very out of place. Other than that it was an okay episode. The Cylon scenes were good, especially the attack and just the idea of this civil war in general. And there were a few little things in the episode to pick up on, one was of course the "1701D" thing. As well as did anyone else notice that Starbuck's painting had an awful strong resemblance to the ship of lights from the original BSG?

hyperqube714

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2008, 08:07:36 PM »
oh, i get it now.  1701-D, doh!

Offline Jimi James

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 12:49:15 AM »
I didn't really care for this episode.  The stuff with the Caval setting up, then taking out the other Skinjobs didn't really seem as important as it should have been.

And by the end of the episode, I was sort of glad that Cally was dead.  I've never had anything against her, and generally liked her character, but everything with her in this episode just rubbed me the wrong way.  It was just way too cliched and predictable that she would try to kill herself after only hearing a piece of a conversation, and even with the twist at the end of Tori showing up and finishing her off, it still just seemed over the top.  But seriously, she was going to kill herself and her baby...I was looking at the screen saying to myself, "you stupid crazy bitch, get a hold of yourself...stop over reacting, and go tell someone you just saw Tigh say that he knows Tyol is a Skinjob."

Plus, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this was the first episode since Pegasus really that I really looked at one of the human characters and was bothered by the amount of hate and disgust they were showing towards the Cylons.  I get that there is plenty of hatred to be had there, after all the Cylons did wipe out most of the human race, but it seemed different with Cally this time.  Almost like she was hating them just to be hating them, not so much that it was because they had done something wrong, but because...I'm not sure how to describe it really; other then that kind of hatred, disgust, and prejudice you see in people who oppose interracial marriage.

As for the stuff between Roslin, Lee, and old Apollo (his name escapes me at the moment) it was mildly entertaining, but it was just building on what we saw in the last episode with Rolsin tightening her grip on the government and really losing control of her faculties.  What would really be great to see, is for Lee to come full circle with his action from the first season when he sided against his father in support of Roslin and the government.  But this time, showing him siding with his father against Roslin as she tries to gain some dictatorial control over the government, maybe even getting to the point of a showdown between Lee and Roslin as an eerie reversed echo of what we saw in season one, Lee draws a gun on her this time. 
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Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2008, 02:50:04 AM »
That seems to be what they're leaning towards.

As for Cally, I can't help but get the feeling that they frakked up her character just so we'd actually want to see her die.
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Offline mark

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2008, 01:59:29 PM »
I get that there is plenty of hatred to be had there, after all the Cylons did wipe out most of the human race, but it seemed different with Cally this time.  Almost like she was hating them just to be hating them, not so much that it was because they had done something wrong, but because...I'm not sure how to describe it really; other then that kind of hatred, disgust, and prejudice you see in people who oppose interracial marriage.

I disagree. When she flashed back to all the times she had been intimate with Tyrol it seemed more like she was coming to see their relationship as an orchestrated farce instead of between two willing individuals. That's probably why the writers had Tori mention that they hadn't known they were Cylons until recently. She was almost winning Cally over on that point which is when she let Tori hold the baby.
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Offline Razor

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Re: BSG 4x05 "The Ties That Bind" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2008, 02:32:14 PM »
Manty will be mourning this weekend.  Have to agree with Jimi it seemed to me that cally was hating just to hate.  As Tory pointed out they weren't responsible for the destruction of humanity and weren't even aware that they were Cylons before.  The stuff with Cavill and Six was fun and i wish they'd focus more on the cylons they're just so much fun to watch.
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