Author Topic: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)  (Read 11062 times)

Offline Jimi James

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Wow....

Dee killed herself....Kara's burned up Viper and Corpse....scary drunk Adama...definitely some WTF moments there...

Ellen is the Fifth?

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 10:00:50 PM by Jimi James »
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Offline Makaveli

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 09:53:35 PM »
For sure... holy shit.
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Offline TNC

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 10:07:31 PM »
Indeed, Holy frak.   :o

Earth was inhabited by Cylons who built their own Centurions.  They wiped each other out 2,000 years ago.  I kind of figured Dee was going to kill herself after she took her ring off (that or start looking the watch or whatever it was she picked up on Earth and be revealed as the Fifth Cylon).  Kara is either some kind of supernatural entity or there's some weird temporal crap going on (maybe).  And Ellen is the Final Cylon...
“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 10:07:53 PM »
I'm a little pissed that the character assassination has continued.  And the only way I'll take that back is if they manage to make something of Dee's death and don't just cheat with Helen being dead sice she's apparently the fifth.  Good call for whoever guessed that one, BTW.

ETA: I wonder if Starbuck was somehow cloned by the same process that brought the original version of her there.  The decomp looked about right for those conditions and as long as her Viper exploded in the planet.  I really hope they do something with that too.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 10:10:14 PM by CX »
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Offline Setekh

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 10:49:35 PM »
I thought Kara was the final Cylon...what else explains her new body? But then Helen showed up, so maybe everyone is a Cylon.

Offline Alexzandyr

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 11:21:37 PM »
I think Dee's death was nicely done as far as why. Like she told Gaeta, she wanted the happiness to last as long as it could...

But yes it was a very wow episode. As for everyone being Cylons, I don't think that is entirely the case sense they can still "prove" that someone is cylon to begin with.  The whole theme of the show is that everything has happened before and everything will happen again. So it all started on Earth, they created the original cylons...led to destruction causing humanity to flee to Kobol where it all started again. Except at Kobol the cylons went back to Earth while the humans went off somewhere else. Just like how after the first cylon war with the Colonials the cylons went off to find their own home and created human versions of themselves, which ultimately led to a civil war and a conflict with their mechanical versions.

Its all about repitition. Personally I'm not sure that it is Earth, they still haven't given us definitive proof.

Offline Razor

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 01:07:14 AM »
Im still trying to make up my mind about this episode.

-I still dont think this is Earth.  Nothing to identify it as such minus the pineapples.  they seem to be going out of there way not to show anything familar.
-It was nice to see Tigh stand up to the drunken Adama.
-The other Cylon centurion that they dug up looks very similar to the cylons from the aborted Brian singer BSG revival.


I'll think up more later.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2009, 06:04:04 AM »
Fantastic episode, one of the best of the series so far. 9/10.

I'm really glad I resisted to temptation to read spoilers this time and went into it blind, because it made it all the more shocking, though to be honest the foreshadowing with Dee was kind of obvious. I knew what was going to happen with Starbuck as soon as they found the Colonial transmitter, but it was still a WTF moment, and I love Leoben's reaction to it. Adama's behavior was a little bit much, but I guess with all they've been through it's plausible.

The acting in this episode was just superb from all involved, but especially Olmos, McDonnell, Hogan, and Sackhoff. They really should be up for some Emmy's next year if all is right with the world. There were moments that almost brought me to tears and others that were so intense you were on their edge of your seat. Great writing and directing by the staff as well.

I love Baltar getting back to being the scientist everyone relies on after his forays into politics and messiahdom. I'm kind of bummed we'll be losing D'Anna again though. While Ellen Tigh is a long predicted Cylon, I didn't really expect her to be in the Final Five. It will be interesting to see if she's really dead or will be coming back, since that would show that the Five can resurrect (but from where?).

Here's how I see the timeline breaking down up to the miniseries given the revelations of this episode (with some speculation of my own, especially about this not being our Earth, which I think is fairly obvious now):
___________________________________________________________

Humans evolve normally on Earth 1 (our Earth).

 |
 v

They create humanoid Cylon servants and explore the stars.

 |
 v

Cylons and Humans settle on Kobol.

 |
 v

Something happens that causes a nuclear war between them (perhaps Cylons being denied equal rights) and the survivors are forced to abandon the planet, but they don't want the remaining Cylons to come with them, so they are exiled elsewhere.

 |
 v

The surviving Humans settle on the 12 Colonies while the surviving Cylons settle on the 13th Colony, which they call Earth in remembrance of their original and peaceful homeworld. Eventually, through deliberate censorship by the Human government who don't wish for Cylons to be recreated, most Humans lose all knowledge of Earth and the Cylons except for vague hints in religious mythology. These Cylons, much like their Human creators, create "lesser" Cylon servants of their own called Centurions.

 |
 v

Someone obliterates Earth 2 (the 13th Colony); possibly rebelling Centurions (lacking sentience inhibitors at this time and aware of their slave status), but more likely Humans from the 12 Colonies who discovered their former slaves and decided to wipe them out so they could never pose a threat to them again. This would give things a bit of symmetry and explain the Cylon desire to wipe out Humanity in turn.

 |
 v

The five survivors (quite literally "The Final Five") of the Earth 2 holocaust vow to get revenge on their destroyers and secretly travel to and resettle in the 12 Colonies. There they perfect a series of new technologies like resurrection technology so that they will never again lose the ones they love. They also (much later when Humanity has forgotten about the Cylon threat) create new Centurions, sentience inhibitors for the Centurions that serve them (but not the ones that serve the Humans so that they will eventually rise up), and before/during the eventual war between Man & sentient Cylon Centurion, they perfect a new race of Hybrids and Cylon Skinjobs - more primitive then themselves but similar.

 |
 v

The cost of the war in both Human and Cylon terms makes The Final Five reconsider their actions. They've grown weary of war and in spite of the anger some of them have grown to love and befriend certain Humans and don't wish for them to die. So, they choose to erase all knowledge of them from the 7 new Cylon skinjob models, order the Centurions to end the war and fall back to neutral territory in deep space, and to erase their own memories as Cylons so that they can live amongst Humans as one of them. However, the skinjobs still retain their original knowledge and programming, vowing one day to avenge their unknown creators for reasons they aren't even entirely sure about, other than considering Humanity a threat and their enslavers (despite hypocritically doing the same thing to the Centurions).

 |
 v

The skinjobs and their Centurion slaves return to the 12 Colonies to exact revenge on Humanity, thus starting the cycle of violence over again. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
___________________________________________________________

So, I still think our Earth may still be out there and populated by Humans, though who knows what kind of Humans they may be this far in the future. They may be like the Beings of Light in the original series, and that's perhaps why Kara is still walking around despite her body dying. Perhaps the Beings of Light are some kind of advanced Human/Cylon hybrids bred through millenia of peaceful coexistence that no longer rely on corporeal bodies but instead consist of free-floating nanites that just inhabit all of their surroundings and can appear out of thin air.

I just would hate the series to end on an incredibly depressing point after basically consistent of nothing but incredibly depressing points up to now (this episode being no exception). My ideal ending would be them finding the real Earth and finding it populated by Humans & Cylons living in peace, since that's certainly what they seem to continue to be driving at.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:12:19 AM by Bond, James Bond »

Offline Jimi James

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2009, 09:55:17 AM »
Not at all what I expected and although it felt a little weak in the opening minutes, given the cliffhanger they left us with, the episode as a whole more then made up for it.

I'm glad they didn't just try to tie everything up in a nice bow right off the bat or just cop out on everyone having to deal with the ramifications of having the 'hope of earth' utterly crushed. I liked the deterioration of morale on Galactica, particularly when drunk Adama was going to see Tigh and there were people fighting in the corridor, or people just crashed on the deck crying and distraught...I was nearly expecting for someone to take a swing at Adama himself.

I wished they had spent a bit more time with earth, exploring more (to say with certainty that it was/is our earth), though I suppose we'll get more of that as the season goes on...hopefully.

Even though Adama gave that 'we'll find a new home' speech, (which was really great in that it sounded so contrived, as if he didn't even beleive it himself, particularly compared to all the moving speech's he's given in the past) I think that as least some part of the group/Alliance will stay behind on earth. Maybe it'll just be D'ana, though I hope it's not only her because it pains me to watch Lucy Lawless try to act, so hopefully a few others will stick around as well. However it happens though, I hope at least someone sticks around on Earth for a while.

I could see Starbuck deciding to stick behind, to try and find out what she is and who is responsible for whatever has happened to her. On the other hand, I could also she her deciding to put it all behind her, sort of like the way that Tigh decided that it didn't matter what he was, only who he wanted to be.

I got the feeling that there might be some sort of division within the fleet, one part that wants to stay behind on Earth and the other part, going out to find some new home. Perhaps even leading up to the setup for the next round of humans and Clyons....all this will happen again after all.

That scene where Kara pulls back the helmet and you see the blonde hair....man that was a powerful image, topped only by Kara looking for her taggs and wedding ring and finding them, then ripping them off her own corpse. And then she still had them in her hand at the end of the episode....did she have them before, like a duplicate set when she came back at the beginning of the season? I imagine that if she had, she would have pulled them out to compare them or at least make sure the ones she was wearing were still there. On the other hand, she might have mentioned not having her tags and the wedding ring when she returned. Probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but it was one of the first things I thought of when we saw the ring in her hand.

But damn, that whole scene was just so cool.  And I loved that Leoben freaked out a bit when he and Kara found her viper.  When he started to just back away from her, I couldn't help but laugh for some reason.  I'm interested to see where that goes, particularly since Kara isn't in that 'kill Leoben as many times as possible' mindset anymore.

We have to wonder of course if Ellen is going to be returning or are these new Cylons one off copies, so when they die they're gone for good. And with the Resurrection Hub gone, is it even possible for her or any of them to return. I would guess that even though the HUB is gone, it won't really matter. If the Hub could have resurrected the final five, their identity wouldn't have been much of a mystery. I would expect the final five to have some sort of other form of resurrection, or at least a system that's independent of the main hub.

I guess in the end, we'll just have to wait and see.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 09:59:47 AM by Jimi James »
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Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2009, 03:39:02 PM »
Helen will probably return, just because of how much storyline they've given her over the season.
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Offline Jon

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2009, 05:49:30 PM »
Definitely full of wtf moments. It wasn't too bad.

I am beginning to think that if this is in fact Earth, then it most probably is not Earth as WE know it today, but that is just me.

Offline Razor

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2009, 08:08:25 PM »
Some pics of the singer/desanto Cylons that seemed to be the inspiration for the alt centurions.

http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=52&t=1990
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline jangoisbaddest

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2009, 12:00:16 AM »
This was the most wonderfully dark episode they've ever done. I am way excited. Every time I think the score can't get any better.....

Anyone else think Adama is frakin hilarious on the sauce?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 12:03:02 AM by jangoisbaddest »

Offline DarkShinobi

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2009, 04:21:51 AM »
Yeah...the tension between him and Tigh in that scene was strong...that was some good drama.

I felt some horror as the scene with Kara and her body was happening...very morbid.

One of the better eps I have to admit...we'll see how they take it from here, though.


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Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2009, 01:02:36 PM »
The thing about the drunk Adama scene though is that it just didn't really seem like him to me, starting in the morgue scene up through the scene in Tigh's room.  It just seemed out of character to me for him to say what he said and the way he said it.
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Offline Razor

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 01:32:12 PM »
^^^Alcohol has a habit of doing that.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2009, 02:00:39 PM »
He's been drunk before though.
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Offline DarkShinobi

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 02:04:09 PM »
Yep, but that time he was drunk, depressed, suicidal...as he said, "morale going down the toilet" so he indeed was "not himself" during that scene.

 ;)


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Offline jangoisbaddest

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2009, 05:03:36 PM »
He's been drunk before though.

Not when he also has had the blood of one of his bridge officers on his hands (in his eyes, anyway), and the feeling that he totally screwed with the crew's hopes and has "let them down," in his own words. And his best friend is a cylon. And Laura, who has basically been his anchor since the unveiling of Saul, doesn't want to live anymore. Combine that with the typical "loss of judgement" that alchohol provides, and I'd call it well within expectations.

Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2009, 05:26:57 PM »
He seemed to just cry and drool all over Lee's hand the last time he thought about people dying because of his actions for what seemed like no meaning.  In this episode he was like a scary fun house mirror image of himself.
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Offline jangoisbaddest

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2009, 05:37:14 PM »
He seemed to just cry and drool all over Lee's hand the last time he thought about people dying because of his actions for what seemed like no meaning.  In this episode he was like a scary fun house mirror image of himself.

I sorta see what you're saying. But this may shed some light on the subject: Olmos said that he actually showed up on the set drunk for his drunken scenes in Notion, to make it more believeable. Probably why he was so frakin funny this time.

Offline Stoo

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2009, 06:05:18 PM »
Anyway that was gloomy, but awesome. Adama losing his shit is a gut-wrenching sight. Laura's just given up, Xena's decided it's better to sit and die on the planet than get chased down by the Cavills and Dee... oh Dee why <sob>

I just hope the old man isn't going to be off down the morgue for regular chats with her corpse...

Lee seems to be doing relatively well, I wonder if he'll go off the rails in his own fashion next week, or hang in there and end up becoming president, either officially or stand-in while Laura sits burning her holy books.

Offline DarkShinobi

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2009, 06:07:25 PM »

I sorta see what you're saying. But this may shed some light on the subject: Olmos said that he actually showed up on the set drunk for his drunken scenes in Notion, to make it more believeable. Probably why he was so frakin funny this time.

Well...that must have been fun for Olmos then.

 ;D


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Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2009, 10:02:35 AM »
Helen will probably return, just because of how much storyline they've given her over the season.

According to Kate Vernon (who looks especially hot in this video) Ellen Tigh will be back in person, not just flashbacks or visions:
http://www.accesshollywood.com/dish-of-salt-who-is-battlestar-galacticas-final-cylon_video_940001

Offline Jimi James

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Re: BSG 4x13 "Sometimes a Great Notion" - Discussion ($$$SPOILERS!!!$$$)
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2009, 10:47:19 AM »
Ellen is definitely one of the underrated hotties of the show.
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