Author Topic: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)  (Read 5950 times)

Offline Alexzandyr

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BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« on: February 14, 2009, 12:05:14 AM »
So, we finally get that moment of exposition to explain most of what is going on. So the final five left "Earth" to warn find the other colonies and warn them about what could happen, doing exactly what the fleet did of tracking down the "road signs". However, they got there after a war had already started and decided to help the Cylons become "human" if they agreed to end the war.

They created for the Cylons bodies, the first of which was Cavil. After however long Cavil killed the five and erased their memories to implant them on the colonies so they could see just how terrible the humans are. He kept the knowledge of the five hidden from the other models. And so it all happened again...and here we are.

What's interesting is, this isn't the enitre story. It still seems that someone else is influencing things other than the final five. Ellen was unaware of the visions that 3 experienced, and she seemed genuinely confused about it. Anders mentioned that when the war on "earth" started the five of them had received warnings through visions of people that no one else could see just like Baltar and his head six. He also mentioned something about angels, and the like.

Put that together with the ramblings of the hybrids and Ellen's mention that the centurions held a belief in a "one true god" that they included in the programming of the skinjobs and its all quite interesting. We got a lot of information that answered a lot of questions, but at the same time we still don't have the very important quesitons answered. This season is pretty frakking good.

Add in to all of this Adama's Galactica woes and it was a good episode. It could have easily gotten too blah with the exposition but they handled it well. Even with the cliche of some head injury causing the visions and then him losing them once he had the surgery. Also, though I like him I think it was a bad idea to use the "PC vs. Mac" guy as the brain surgeon, but he did a good job.

Also Adama's line when he was talking to Tyrol was great "Are you frakking telling me they CUT CORNERS?" Priceless because he seemed so shocked about it but as in real life everything is built by the lowest bidder and then also the underlying reference to how the corners are cut on almost everything in the show (namely paper).

10/10

Offline Xero

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 12:39:21 AM »
I deleted the episode after I watched it, so I can't confirm; did Tyrol say the Galactica was 50 years old during the first war? So Galactica is around 90 years old?
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Offline Jimi James

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 12:51:02 AM »
Yeah, I think so.  50 years.

Some cool moments and lots of info.  While I enjoyed all the information and found it interesting, I was much more entertained by the exchange between Adama and Tyrol, starting with him resuming his role as the Chief.  But their talk about everything the Galactica had been through and how it would have killed other ships was just awesome.

"Just, don't jump her."

I was also glad to see that they kept their momentum going and that the quality hasn't let up.  On any other show, after a run like the mutiny arc, most series would have followed it up with something less then stellar. 

It was nice to see Roslin hand over the reigns (again) to Lee.  I couldn't help but wonder though if she has any guilt about anything that happened.  I think that it's certainly possible that if she hadn't been over on Galactica jumpin the Old Man's Bones and refusing to take her chemo treatments, and had been over on Colonial One doing her job, the mutiny might not have happened.  At least it would have been more difficult for Zarek to take control and wipe out the Quorum. 

Granted, there's a lot of maybe in there, but when she was there going through photos and talking about how she knew them all and what a senseless waste their death had been, it made her seem like a bit of a hypocrite to me.  It just rubbed me the wrong way that she didn't seem to even think that there might have been more she could have done.

Also, as to the other Skin-Job, Daniel wasn't it?  I'm hoping that they leave him dead and gone and don't bring him back as somebody the main characters are supposed to know....like Billy or Zack.  That would be incredibly lame.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 12:55:23 AM by Jimi James »
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Offline Xero

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 01:14:45 AM »
One thing I liked was the character change in Ellen Tigh. To find out her real personality was kind, and motherly like, hit me like a hammer at first.
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline CX

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 02:23:16 AM »
Well, I find it a bit convenient that there's a magical Cylon fix for Galactica, and I can't help but hope that Adama's fears might not be justified somehow.  Speaking as an engineer in the conventional sense, normally that kind of damage would mean death for that ship, because there is no way to fix material that brittle and that fractured, sort of ripping it all out and replacing all of the affected structural members.  And that makes me wonder how the hull itself is holding up, for that matter.
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Offline Stoo

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 07:06:04 AM »
did Tyrol say the Galactica was 50 years old during the first war? So Galactica is around 90 years old?

I think he meant 50 years old during the current war.

Anyway another awesome ep, even if it was mostly a huge exposition session. I'm glad we've finally learned exactly where the skinjobs came from.

So if i'm getting this right: Cylons live on earth, they took up procreation and forgot how to resurrect, the "final five" are the ones who rediscovered the technology. Then their own centurions nuked everything, so they headed off to the colonies. There they saw artificial life had been created, and taught these Centurions how to make skinjobs in exchange for ceasing the war. (with hybrids being the Centurions' own attempt).

What I'm still confused about is... how come earth was all Cylon in the first place?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 07:10:52 AM by Stoo »

Offline Broken Subspace Scene

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 08:33:07 AM »
- I love Hodgman, but his appearance was sort of half amusing and half terribly out of place.
- The whole Cylon-Earth thing confuses me too.
- An interesting theory on Daniel that I saw was that he was Starbuck's father, being an artist type, etc. 

Offline TNC

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2009, 11:17:50 AM »
From what I can tell the Earth Cylons came from Kobol, then they built Centurions that rebelled, then came to the Colonies to warn the Humans but were too late, then they built the skinjobs to stop the war.

Anyway this was a pretty good episode.  One thing I particularly liked was Lee saying that they weren't from Caprica or whatever colony now, they were from Galactica or whatever other ship so their new Quorum should reflect that.
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Offline mdtillard

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2009, 04:08:20 PM »
Is it me or at the begenning of the ep when doc cottle is geting ready to drill into sam that he (sam) sounds like a hybrid.  Also, i am thinking that maby the magic cylon fix for galatica will only buy her enough time to finish the series, not to make her brand spanking new.  Also, while rewatching the ep, Tyrol said that if the hull supports gave out the ship would be crushed like a pancake, but I woudl think that it sould be the other way around, that the ship should explode, because they are in space, and it is the interor that has the greater pressure, not the exterior, I would think that subs would be crushed like pancakes, not space/starships.  Plz correct me if I am wrong on this.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 04:36:11 PM by mdtillard »
Executor class Star Dreadnaught, 17.6km keel
x class Star Battleship, 12.8km keel
y class Star Battlecruiser, 8km keel
z class Star Cruiser, 2.2km keel
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Offline Stoo

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2009, 05:26:57 PM »
I'm guessing he means the structure failing while the engines are firing - the rear end of the ship wants to go forwards, the front end doesn't want to move (inertia), the hull isn't strong enough to transmit the forces and it buckles.

That or something to do with FTL - he suggested to Adama that they not jump for a while. But what kind of impact that has on the hull, we really don't know.

Offline Alexzandyr

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2009, 06:57:29 PM »
If you remember way back in the mini series and the first episode "33" (I think they did it then too) whenever the ship jumped it had this very odd camera effect where everthing kind of got squeezed together. I guess maybe this suggested that things get a little compressed when the ship jumps, and that could be what he is referring to.

Also they were in between the outter hull and the inner hull. So perhaps that section isn't always pressurized (why would it need to be if no one is in there?) and what he was referring to would be the sections collapsing due to the pull of the artificial gravity of the ship. Not 100% on that.

Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: BSG 4x17 "No Exit" Discussion ($$$SPOILERS$$$)
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2009, 04:51:21 AM »
Posting this because it added an interesting tidbit about the revelations in the episode:
_________________________________________________

In Ron Moore’s No Exit podcast, he gives a monologue of a missing scene that will show up on the DVD. In that monologue is information about Kobol, Man, and Cylons.

    The Lords of Kobol felt that man could never break the fourth wall, could never look upon the gods with understanding and grasped the divine nature of life. They believe this until one day man stole their fire and created the 1st cylon, the 1st artificial life, and then man in his arrogance believed that Cylon could never break the fourth wall. Man believed right up to the first moment the first Centurion was built and than the great exodus from paradise began.


http://www.niciasus.com/2009/02/19/who-are-the-cylons/
_________________________________________________

This seems like it may imply that the Cylons left or were exiled from Kobol/"Paradise" (and to the 13th colony) by humans for creating their own new life in the Centurions. Perhaps there was a war between humans and Cylons which would explain the death and destruction on Kobol. It would also explain why only Cylons were on the 13th colony.

'Sometimes a Great Notion' seemed to imply Centurions first being created on the 13th colony, but perhaps it was even earlier and that was just when they rebelled.

The mystery of why they keep editing out all of these very important scenes and dialogue recently may never be solved, though.