Author Topic: Daybreak ***Spoilers***  (Read 21360 times)

Offline Jimi James

  • So Say We All
  • Administrator
  • Distinguished Member
  • Posts: 9,322
  • Abandon Ship
    • View Profile
    • The New Haven Chronicles
Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« on: March 13, 2009, 08:00:44 PM »
The beginning of the end.

A lot of build up, but that's to be expected with a two part episode.

I really liked the flashbacks to Caprica and how even though it was a sci-fi setting, it was still like a realistic world with all the things you would expect to see.  I like that Caprica doesn't look like some world out of Star Wars or Star Trek.  It's really a place I could picture existing in a few years, familiar but still somewhat futuristic.  I really hope the Caprica series maintains that sort of style.

Next week, two hours of BSG awesomeness.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 10:43:54 PM by Jimi James »
https://www.patreon.com/JonMichaelMay
Help me make art, by joining me on Patreon. Various subscriptions tiers are in place, allowing you to support my addictive art habit for as little as $1 a month.

Offline Bond, James Bond

  • Administrator
  • Minor Board Deity
  • Posts: 31,805
  • Licensed to Ban
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2009, 02:51:22 AM »
I'm just glad we finally got the Lee drunkenly fighting with a pigeon flashback we'd all been waiting for. I much preferred it to answers about the mysteries of the show or anything quaint like that. Maybe the pigeon is the Cylon god, and it will all tie together next week. Or maybe the pigeon is a metaphor for how time flies, so therefore we shouldn't use half the second to last episode for filler that will have to be resolved (maybe!) by more seemingly pointless flashbacks in the finale.

Offline Stoo

  • an all too ordinary story
  • Global Moderator
  • Eminent Member
  • Posts: 5,303
    • View Profile
    • A Force for Good
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 09:24:54 AM »
A lot of build up, but that's to be expected with a two part episode.

Wasn't last week our Lot of Build Up? If it's a super-awesome finale I can live with it, but I hope there's a point to these flashbacks.

I'm glad Galactica is getting an epic final mission though. I don't think any of us are expecting her to survive it...

« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 09:26:55 AM by Stoo »

Offline TNC

  • Board Legend
  • Posts: 10,651
  • Stuck in the middle of nowhere...
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 11:02:26 AM »
I was under the mistaken impression that last night was going to be the finale, oh well.  The Caprica flashbacks were kind of neat, but really they should have done stuff like that 10 episodes ago, rather than now an episode away from the finale.
“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline The Daft Punk

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 3,932
  • An Erotic Adventurer Of The Most Deranged Kind
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2009, 12:01:53 PM »
The flashbacks were alright, if a little pointless. So Roslin had siblings, Baltar's dad was a crotchety old man, and Lee is a drunk pigeon fighter. Hopefully, there had better be some payoff to all this buildup.

I liked the bit where Tyrol pulled Tory across the line, saying "Like you've got something else to do" (or words to that effect). She really is the most boring character on the show. At least Anders got interesting, especially after his realization of his Cylon nature, but Tory is just so goddamn bland. She's not even bad, she just exists.
Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger
~~~~~~~~
"Until a man is 25, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial arts monastery in China and studied real hard for 10 years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad."
- "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson

Offline Bond, James Bond

  • Administrator
  • Minor Board Deity
  • Posts: 31,805
  • Licensed to Ban
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 06:16:35 AM »
One of the things that really bothered me about this episode was Adama turning Cottle away (and rightly so) because they can't afford to lose doctors, but allowing Lee, THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE COLONIAL FLEET (and soon to be official president) to join the suicide mission. I mean, who else has shown the willingness and skill to effectively lead the survivors both militarily and politically, especially with the loss of their protective cover in Galactica, when they'll need good leadership the most? It's basically just leaving not only themselves on the suicide mission to die, but the rest of the fleet as well if they fail at destroying The Colony, albeit slower. I thought that was really irresponsible on the part of both Adamas and Roslin for not realizing that Lee should have stayed behind.

In the previous two episodes they've been reiterating the fact that Baltar has never done anything that wasn't ultimately self-serving in some way, and reinforced it with having him not join the suicide mission. I think in the next episode he will either stay behind and through his self-serving behavior become the leader of the survivors, or, much more likely, just before the mission launches he will have a change of heart and go on the mission - where he will make the ultimate sacrifice to save Hera or the Galactica survivors. They've invested too much time into pointing out how utterly reprehensible and unchangeable Baltar is for him not to do the right thing and die as penance for his sins at the end.

Offline Stoo

  • an all too ordinary story
  • Global Moderator
  • Eminent Member
  • Posts: 5,303
    • View Profile
    • A Force for Good
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 06:27:50 AM »
I was thinking a bit more about the flashbacks. Laura has suffered terrible tragedies in the past, maybe that's helped her keep strong and composed? With the Lee\Kara one... was that maybe trying to tell us he fell for her right away? Not sure what's going on with the drunk pigeon fight, are the writers just dropping a past Alcohol problem out of the blue on us?

The Adama one, was he grumping over the decomissioning ceremony? It's hard to tell exactly how far before the miniseries some of these were. I mean Laura's sisters looked a lot younger than her, unless those scenes were 10+ years earlier.

Offline The Daft Punk

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 3,932
  • An Erotic Adventurer Of The Most Deranged Kind
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 08:03:39 AM »
They were at least two years before the miniseries, as that was when the funeral for Zak was. They were probably longer, as we saw Kara and Lee meeting for the first time.
Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger
~~~~~~~~
"Until a man is 25, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial arts monastery in China and studied real hard for 10 years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad."
- "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson

Offline Broken Subspace Scene

  • Prolific Member
  • Posts: 701
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 09:03:14 PM »
Wow, Part Two was half fraking epic, half wistful yet satisfying.  A really good bookend to a great series.


- Starbuck is...what, exactly?  She couldn't have been a Head Six/Head Baltar "angel".  Some weird Hand of God?  Or something?
- The flashbacks worked much better in this episode and now in retrospect.
- Surprised to see Tori go like that.  I guess she lived in mediocrity, she died in mediocrity...
- Shouldn't there be a bunch of Cylons left that weren't at the black hole base?
- It was great to see the 'retro' toasters again, and I loved the 'Red Stripes'.   I liked how the Colonials came to respect the Centurions at the end.  Godspeed, you lovable kill-bots.
- The action in the base was very claustrophobic, intense, and overall sheer badass.  I did find it a bit hard to track fully what was going on in some of the space battle scenes, considering the very beautiful but cluttered visuals.
- Loved Galactica fighting full slugfest, battlewagon form.  A brilliant, epic sendoff that seemed to capture the 'personality' of the ship in its crude, tough glory.  The results of the 'one last jump' were also brilliantly done.
- The ending was a good compromise in a way: they didn't really find the Earth they had expected, but it's still Earth.  However, there is a bit of a plausibility stretch - shouldn't we have found some evidence of Colonial habitation, ie. Raptors
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 06:06:36 AM by Broken Subspace Scene »

Offline Jon

  • Prolific Member
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 09:16:45 PM »
Wow, just wow! Very well done, and a great farewell.

Offline Setekh

  • Eminent Member
  • Posts: 6,774
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 09:31:58 PM »
I FUCKING knew it.

I would like to direct your attention to a post I made 2 years ago.

I always had a suspicion that maybe Galactica was somehow set before our civilization. But since All Along the Watchtower was being played, that kind of throws that out of the window (or does it...(yeah probably)).

So maybe I was doubting myself, but I still kept that suspicion in the back of my head. I feel vindicated, but sad I didn't have more confidence in my intuition. I'm sure a lot of other people thought it too, though.

Anyway, I thought it was awesome.

Offline Jimi James

  • So Say We All
  • Administrator
  • Distinguished Member
  • Posts: 9,322
  • Abandon Ship
    • View Profile
    • The New Haven Chronicles
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 09:35:18 PM »
Wow.  A huge amount of stuff was covered, tied up, and pretty much all of it was great.

First hour, action packed, though it felt a bit rushed though I guess that's understandable.  Another thing though, was that it seemed a bit beyond beleif that anything on Galactica, particularly the FTL would be working after that fight....and later when Adama was down on the flight deck, there was no damage to be seen.

Second hour....Earth, or at least the idea of Earth...and or earth.  Even though we've all pretty much had that idea and feeling that the colonies were somehow going to lead to the establishment of our society, it was still interesting how they pulled it off and it didn't feel predictable.

I really liked the back and forth between the Galactica and the Opera House when they were looking for Hera and how it ended up in the CIC with the final five standing there.  That was a great way to tie all that together, particularly when if you think about the layout of the CIC as an opera house with the stage at the lowest level and the seats/stations rising around it.

Plus that scene of Adama with pistol in hand, kicking Cylon ass.

I liked that Tryol just snapped Tori's neck.  She had it coming.

I loved that final scene with Ron, Six, and Baltar.  That was a great final scene.

The flashbacks were still great.  Even if they didn't add anything that directly related to the story this episode was telling, it was enough to add in that information about their characters.  And in the end, that's what the series has always been about.  The characters and their interactions have always been more import then the Myhtology, the sci-fi military nature of the story, and even the quest for earth.  All of that provided a plot.  The characters are the meat of the series and that's why the last 40 minutes was spent with just the characters settling in and saying their goodbye's.

The Raptors jumping inside the flight pod....amazing.

What the Frak was Kara and where the Frak did she go? 
Personally, I think she is probably similar to whatever Head Six and Head Baltar were, however a more physical manifestation.
https://www.patreon.com/JonMichaelMay
Help me make art, by joining me on Patreon. Various subscriptions tiers are in place, allowing you to support my addictive art habit for as little as $1 a month.

Offline Setekh

  • Eminent Member
  • Posts: 6,774
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2009, 09:39:45 PM »
OK, so, what is the deal with Angel Gaius and Angel Six. Seriously. And God that doesn't want to be called God.

Also, Kara. What was that about. Is she a ninja. And what about being the Harbinger of Death.

Galen went to Ireland I guess. Is that what was supposed to happen?

So how was Hera mitochondrial Eve. That would mean she was the mother of all of us today. Do that mean that she gotta gangbanged by the natives and all the native's kids died out? It would also maybe mean that no one else from Galactica had kids with each other (none that had surviving lineages anyway).

More questions to come as I digest it, I'm Sure!

Offline Setekh

  • Eminent Member
  • Posts: 6,774
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 09:48:33 PM »
What happened to all the Other Cylons. Did the Nuke's blow em up and shit? Why did Cavil just straight up shoot himself? I guess maybe he figured he might as well, but it didn't seem like him.

I wonder what happened to the Centurions. I think it would have been cool if they addressed that.

Also, the old style centurions fighting the new centurions was kinda awesome.

Offline IO

  • Member
  • Posts: 240
  • Nova Cat FTW
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 09:57:21 PM »
arent they gonna address this int The Plan

 anit it supposed to be next week
 
the Cylons veiw of the whole finale

edit: what about Rosaline's send off? i guess I missed a bit a while back but ...
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 10:00:57 PM by IO »

If a guy builds 1000 bridges,
and sucks one cock, he isn't a bridge builder. He's a cock sucker.

Offline TNC

  • Board Legend
  • Posts: 10,651
  • Stuck in the middle of nowhere...
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 10:01:32 PM »
Wow!  That's about all I can say about it.  The battle scenes were awesome.

What happened to all the Other Cylons. Did the Nuke's blow em up and shit? Why did Cavil just straight up shoot himself? I guess maybe he figured he might as well, but it didn't seem like him.

I would imagine that the nukes killed most of the other Cylons and may have pushed the Colony out of a stable orbit and into the black hole.  That or the Centurions from the baseship headed for the Colony to free the surviving Centurions.  As far as Cavil's suicide, I guess he just didn't want any of the Galactica crew to get the satisfaction of killing him.

arent they gonna addres this int The Plan

 anit it supposed to be next week
 
the Cylons veiw of the whole finale

"The Plan" is the Cylon side of the attack on the colonies.  I don't think it airs until some time in the fall.  Next week is one of the SG-1 movies.
“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline Jimi James

  • So Say We All
  • Administrator
  • Distinguished Member
  • Posts: 9,322
  • Abandon Ship
    • View Profile
    • The New Haven Chronicles
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 10:05:21 PM »
When Galactica came out of the jump and you could see her back break, and the ship just sort of rippled....that was both awesome and sad.
https://www.patreon.com/JonMichaelMay
Help me make art, by joining me on Patreon. Various subscriptions tiers are in place, allowing you to support my addictive art habit for as little as $1 a month.

Offline Jon

  • Prolific Member
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2009, 10:19:43 PM »
When Galactica came out of the jump and you could see her back break, and the ship just sort of rippled....that was both awesome and sad.

It was really heart-breaking actually. I was actually waiting for her to tear in half or explode, but the ol' girl held it together.

Offline mark

  • Veteran Member
  • Posts: 2,247
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2009, 10:26:39 PM »
So how was Hera mitochondrial Eve. That would mean she was the mother of all of us today. Do that mean that she gotta gangbanged by the natives and all the native's kids died out? It would also maybe mean that no one else from Galactica had kids with each other (none that had surviving lineages anyway).

No. Mitochondrial Eve is nothing more than a common ancestor. It doesn't require her to be everyone's direct mother in her own lifetime or for everyone else to not have children. It just means that further along the genealogical tree, the mother-daughter lineages of all the other females were interupted by a male child who can't pass on the mitochondria any further. Hera would only need to have two or more daughters of her own for that to work. I believe they made some kind of error in that scene when they referred to fossil remains. We have no fossil remains of mitochondrial Eve, just the matrilineal family tree she started based on an analysis of the current (surviving) population. Also, if such an analysis had been conducted thousands of years ago, we would come up with a different and earlier mitochondrial Eve in order to accomodate mitochondrial lineages that had not yet died out. So mitochondrial Eve doesn't have any fixed meaning. It's just a convenient way to convey that in BSG all current humans are descended from a half cylon human.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 10:33:56 PM by mark »
"Even if a hundred percent of the people polled like f%#&ing Hobbit movies, they still suck." --Penn Jillette

Offline Jimi James

  • So Say We All
  • Administrator
  • Distinguished Member
  • Posts: 9,322
  • Abandon Ship
    • View Profile
    • The New Haven Chronicles
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 12:00:05 AM »
Watching it again, I noticed the music a lot more this time.  I think they may have actually used every major theme the show has had.  It's all amazing as usual.  Bear McCreary is simply brilliant.

Glad to see that Helo survived after getting shot.

I liked that "I know about farming," line from Baltar and how he broke down a bit.

The way that the cast talked about it early on, I really though the end would be more dark, brutal, and devastating than what it turned out to be.  I mean, even with everyone that didn't make it and everything that has happened to those that did, it's still a bit of a happy ending.  They found Earth, a place to call home that looks pretty damn nice, certainly better then New Caprica. 

Is that part at the end, when Baltar and Six are in our present, is that supposed to mean that they're Gods or something or that they're at least part of the 'outside influence' that Baltar was talking about in CIC when he was trying to talk down Cavil....or are they the head versions?  If the latter then it leads some credence to the idea that Head Six and Head Baltar are indeed messengers from God, or even Angles as Baltar referred to them.

And on another note, I can't recall seeing another show in recent history that had such a satisfying conclusion...even including DS9 and TNG.  The endings to both of those ended well, but this ending is on a whole other level I think.  This series has been such a culmination of what I personally would consider some of the best sci-fi ever, that to see it end is both gratifying and saddening....and more.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 12:27:15 AM by Jimi James »
https://www.patreon.com/JonMichaelMay
Help me make art, by joining me on Patreon. Various subscriptions tiers are in place, allowing you to support my addictive art habit for as little as $1 a month.

Offline Charles

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • Loves Lucy
    • View Profile
    • The Caveman's Corner
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 12:37:36 AM »

No. Mitochondrial Eve is nothing more than a common ancestor. It doesn't require her to be everyone's direct mother in her own lifetime or for everyone else to not have children. It just means that further along the genealogical tree, the mother-daughter lineages of all the other females were interupted by a male child who can't pass on the mitochondria any further. Hera would only need to have two or more daughters of her own for that to work. I believe they made some kind of error in that scene when they referred to fossil remains. We have no fossil remains of mitochondrial Eve, just the matrilineal family tree she started based on an analysis of the current (surviving) population. Also, if such an analysis had been conducted thousands of years ago, we would come up with a different and earlier mitochondrial Eve in order to accomodate mitochondrial lineages that had not yet died out. So mitochondrial Eve doesn't have any fixed meaning. It's just a convenient way to convey that in BSG all current humans are descended from a half cylon human.

Yeah, it would be completely impossible to find the fossil of "Mitochondrial Eve." She's a genetic construct. But, still, good tie in with the science. I winced a bit in places, but I think that was one of the best treatments paleoanthropology has gotten in the annals of "here's where we really came from" science fiction.

Oh, and I'm not entirely sure what everyone seemed so intent upon 'farming.' It's not like there are bunchs of cultivated plants growing around the be put in little rows and harvested. I have a feeling everyone would pretty much have to fall back on gathering, and there's a limited number of gatherers Earth's ecosystems can support.

But, beyond nit picking, it was very moving and very good. I didn't like the ending in places, just because you don't like to see characters losing each other like that, but I respected it. It was also the only really philosophically cogent way to end the show.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 12:45:57 AM by Charles »
The only good cat is a Schrödinger's Cat.

Offline Viral

  • Veteran Member
  • Posts: 1,449
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 01:37:18 AM »
Holy frakking crap. What a ride. But it's over!  :'(

First off, it's been forever since I was last here. Not sure why, but SCN was one of the first things I thought of after I finished watching the finale. I think I'm going to go back and read through a lot of the various threads here about previous episodes. I've always found you guys to be fairly insightful.

Second, I've got little to nothing regarding the whole Kara Thrace..... thing. I'm assuming that the "harbinger of death" bit was more relevant when she was alive and not... whatever she is/was afterwards. But I'm all confused right now. I can't fully remember the order all of that occurred in. I think I need to rewatch the entire series to gain a better handle on everything. Even though I've bought all the DVDs thus far, I haven't actually watched any of them. I wanted everything to be finished before I got into all the behind-the-scenes, director's commentary, interviews, etc. I think that really helped keep me grounded in the universe. And I have to say (because of that or not) the final exchange between Lee, Adama and Kara really got to me.

Bah, I've got to sort through my thoughts. They're a bit jumbled atm. I can't WAIT for the director's commentary on this episode though!
Once you leave the womb, conservatives don’t care about you until you reach military age. Then you’re just what they’re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers.
- George Carlin

Offline Jimi James

  • So Say We All
  • Administrator
  • Distinguished Member
  • Posts: 9,322
  • Abandon Ship
    • View Profile
    • The New Haven Chronicles
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 02:33:07 AM »
I think the whole Harbinger of Death wasn't such a literal meaning, as in humanity would be wiped out.  If Hera and human-Cylon hybrids like her are indeed the future, then eventually at some point, this new civilization would stop being completely human...and Kara was largely responsible in making that future possible by finding the real Earth.  Or at least the planet they're going to call Earth.  So, in actuality, she did bring about the end of Humanity as we know it (pure humans), just not in the way that we expected her too.

Yeah, definitely looking forward to the commentary for this one.  I'm also wondering if there might be an even longer version of Daybreak on the DVD.  Some of the action scenes in the first hour seemed a bit rushed, or like they might have cut things out that otherwise would have been in there.  For example, when Lee called to say they had Hera and were coming back to the ship.  The Next time you see him, they're already well inside the ship.  So I'm guessing that there might be more.
https://www.patreon.com/JonMichaelMay
Help me make art, by joining me on Patreon. Various subscriptions tiers are in place, allowing you to support my addictive art habit for as little as $1 a month.

Offline Xero

  • Board Legend
  • Posts: 11,583
  • Let the big man do his job.
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 06:35:48 AM »
This has to be the first series finale I've watched, that hasn't left me wanting more. It was damn near perfect.
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline CX

  • Distinguished Member
  • Posts: 9,682
  • Bully!
    • View Profile
Re: Daybreak ***Spoilers***
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 08:35:29 AM »
I missed all of it. :(
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough." - TR