Author Topic: Flagg is out  (Read 29673 times)

Offline Stoo

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2009, 09:01:27 AM »
more like subspace drama network

ok guys watch this space, we'll figure something out

Offline Manticore

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2009, 09:09:03 AM »

I prefer to be succinct, then to give a long winded reason as to why I think his banning is completely retarded.

Like Kestra, Flagg and I have come to a mutual understanding. There's only a handful of people here I have great respect for, Flagg is on the top of that list.

So because a few people have had a decent experience with him, his banning is "completely retarded?"  Never mind the many people who have not?

I think that the ban should have been discussed first.  However, I also think that this would have been the best outcome of it.  It'd be nice to be able to participate in discussions without having to worry about being called an idiot simply because some curmudgeon from Floriday disagrees with me. ::)

Offline Xero

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2009, 09:14:16 AM »
He ban is also completely retarded because it wasn't disscussed, and it also seems to have been a vindictive measure.

So Flagg calls you a bad name, big deal. Shrug it off.
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Offline USS Mariner

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2009, 09:17:18 AM »

I prefer to be succinct, then to give a long winded reason as to why I think his banning is completely retarded.

Like Kestra, Flagg and I have come to a mutual understanding. There's only a handful of people here I have great respect for, Flagg is on the top of that list.

So because a few people have had a decent experience with him, his banning is "completely retarded?"  Never mind the many people who have not?

I think that the ban should have been discussed first.  However, I also think that this would have been the best outcome of it.

The "gushing" is probably more a result of the Holy-shit-where-did-this-come-from nature of the ban. His last post wasn't really that out of the ordinary, so it's odd that he's just up an banned.

I mean, yeah, he's had this queer-smear campaign on you for years, but he does that to everyone, including myself and Bond, but it's more upsetting that this wasn't discussed at all among the staff.
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Offline Manticore

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 09:21:30 AM »
He ban is also completely retarded because it wasn't disscussed, and it also seems to have been a vindictive measure.

I'll give you that point.  Does anyone have a link as to where this "smear campaign" took place and what it involved?

Quote
So Flagg calls you a bad name, big deal. Shrug it off.

Dude, you can hardly call everything that Flagg's done "calling a bad name."  I don't fucking care how much you liked him, he has consistently harassed myself and others over the years, to the point where I generally don't put in my two-cents around here because I don't feel like putting up with him.  Does that whole "mangina" crap ring any bells?  He still sometimes goes on about it, years after Bond told him to stop.  Or how about the fact that he rarely seems at all interested in actual discussion about anything, such as in the Heroes thread, where he decided to piss all over it since day one?

It'd be nice if he'd come back, but from the perspective of someone who's been on the receiving end of his crap for more than five years, I'm not going to shed any tears if he doesn't.

Offline Bernd

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2009, 11:13:59 AM »
Request: If anyone finds the smear campaign in question, please don't mention the place or post the URL here.

Offline USS Mariner

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2009, 11:21:27 AM »
Okay. It's still really easy to find though.
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Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2009, 02:31:53 PM »
I suspected it was that place yesterday after reading this topic for the first time. The request not to post the URL confirmed it for me. His comment over there was uncalled for. That said, I will agree that not discussing it for someone who's been here since before I finally decided to join was not a good move. If he had been here a week, that's one thing, somewhere around 5-6 years, if not longer, is something else.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 03:26:09 PM by Fiery Little One »
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Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2009, 02:36:15 PM »
I have to admit, I'm more curious about what was said now than before...as Bernd said that comments made elsewhere were the reason for his removal, but then basically made the evidence unviewable...not to say that I disagree with his decision, but rather I would like to see the reasoning.
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Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2009, 03:00:00 PM »
Let's put it this way, recently Flagg had gotten his shorts in a knot anytime any of us mentioned a particular site in, what might be called, a negative way. He just so happens to be a member there.
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Offline Broken Subspace Scene

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2009, 03:41:11 PM »
Regarding the strong disagreement on the ban, I don't think many people will disagree that Flagg was an intelligent contributor who did offer posts of substance as well as some brutal honesty.  However, consider his conduct at times in regards to topics he wasn't interested in or people he didn't hold in high regard - it's wasn't always exactly civil discourse. 

There's a line between 'brutal honesty and cutting remarks' and 'needless profanity and negativity'.  I'm not saying that warrants a permaban, but  there is a pretty lengthy history of questionable behaviour and it's a bit more than an off-the-cuff decision by Bernd.

Offline Argosy Special Ops

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2009, 05:43:33 PM »
I thoroughly enjoyed my interaction with Flagg back when we had Dan C’s censorship in play several boards ago. I think I started posting here less when that was repealed, because it is quite difficult for me to read people when reading text on a screen. That coupled with my signature character flaw of flying off the handle at any perceived slight has seriously drawn down my participation here lest I wear out my welcome permanently.  I’m by no means advocating that we turn the clock back on the censorship thing, but for me at least there does seem to be a correlation there. Bottom line…it takes two for things to become heated and spiral out of control. And it’s a bit offensive to my provincial American sensibility to think that someone can have sanctions levied against them let alone be permanently banned for freely speaking their mind in another venue out side of the board rules here. I’ll kind of miss the entertainment & perspective I got from his post while lurking here for the last few years, and it’s always sad to see someone go after having been here so many years.
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Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2009, 05:47:47 PM »
I thoroughly enjoyed my interaction with Flagg back when we had Dan C’s censorship in play several boards ago. I think I started posting here less when that was repealed, because it is quite difficult for me to read people when reading text on a screen. That coupled with my signature character flaw of flying off the handle at any perceived slight has seriously drawn down my participation here lest I wear out my welcome permanently.  I’m by no means advocating that we turn the clock back on the censorship thing, but for me at least there does seem to be a correlation there. Bottom line…it takes two for things to become heated and spiral out of control. And it’s a bit offensive to my provincial American sensibility to think that someone can have sanctions levied against them let alone be permanently banned for freely speaking their mind in another venue out side of the board rules here. I’ll kind of miss the entertainment & perspective I got from his post while lurking here for the last few years, and it’s always sad to see someone go after having been here so many years.

Urgh...as much as I don't want to open a window for Flagg's return, I have to agree with you their. I'd be different if we had the actuall dialogue that broke the camels back, or something of the sort...selfishly, I really do like the idea of Flagg being removed from SCN, but I wonder why now...what did it?
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Offline Manticore

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2009, 05:48:47 PM »
Let's put it this way, recently Flagg had gotten his shorts in a knot anytime any of us mentioned a particular site in, what might be called, a negative way. He just so happens to be a member there.

If it's the comment that I read at the site that I think you're talking about, it sure as hell wasn't worth a permaban.  A stern talking to, but since it happened offsite, I have to say "meh' to it.  I was expecting a serious long-lasting campaign of something really foul.

Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2009, 05:51:21 PM »
Why can't we just post the link? With respect to Bernd, I think we should see the evidence here.

Although, the evil part of me just says no, guilty until proven innocent, be done with him, etc...
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Offline caisson2delta

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2009, 05:57:23 PM »
I never had any online altercations with the guy, but did read the back and forths with him and other members. It was almost like a split personality type of thing with him. Some of his posts were very informative and well thought out; while others were flat out nonsense and bullying. I don't know the circumstances of what happened elsewhere and am not going to comment out of ignorance. It does seem odd that what happened elsewhere might be dealt with so harshly.

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2009, 06:34:53 PM »
Why can't we just post the link? With respect to Bernd, I think we should see the evidence here.

Although, the evil part of me just says no, guilty until proven innocent, be done with him, etc...

The reason we can't post a link is that we've had.... incidents... with their membership in the past.
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Offline Argosy Special Ops

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2009, 06:49:33 PM »
WTF?!?!? ???  I missed the chance to rep SCN sect in a "Saint's Row" type gang war? :D
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Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2009, 07:18:03 PM »
It was more a case of them attacking us, unprovoked as I recall. (Somebody who remembers what I'm talking about feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on that.)
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Offline Greg

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2009, 07:39:41 PM »
From what I vaguely remember, it was provoked by a couple of members, then escalated when a few from SD.net made accounts here to respond and it went downhill from there. Registrations were mod-approved for a few months afterwards as a result. This was in late '02/early '03 as I recall, but that was so many years ago I don't see why people still bother tip-toeing around it, the members who provoked it all in the first place haven't been here for years.

In regards to Flagg, I mostly agree with what Jedigreedo said:

The problem with that, however, is that not everybody is going to have the same experiences as you have, and there is no denying that he seemed to have quite a vendetta against some people; some were called for as they had a trollish attitude, and others just didn't deserve the constant barrage such as Manticore and Maple Dog.  Honestly, though, I know he's quite intelligent and one of the select few people on here that you can learn alot from by keeping track of his many serious debates.  He just drastically needs to dial back the personal attacks and vindictive attitude.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 07:46:04 PM by Greg »

Offline Razor

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2009, 07:42:58 PM »
Why can't we just post the link? With respect to Bernd, I think we should see the evidence here.

Although, the evil part of me just says no, guilty until proven innocent, be done with him, etc...

The reason we can't post a link is that we've had.... incidents... with their membership in the past.

Oh for the love of God so it was SD.net JUST POST IT!!!!  Its not like Beetlejuice where if you say the name they'll appear and start raping us.  Besides our concern is with what Flagg said that warranted a banning not anything with them.  
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Xero

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2009, 07:45:22 PM »
Why can't we just post the link? With respect to Bernd, I think we should see the evidence here.

Although, the evil part of me just says no, guilty until proven innocent, be done with him, etc...

The reason we can't post a link is that we've had.... incidents... with their membership in the past.

Oh for the love of God so it was SD.net JUST POST IT!!!!  Its not like Beetlejuice where if you say the name they'll appear and start raping us.  Besides our concern is with what Flagg said that warranted a banning not anything with them.  

Everytime SD is mentioned, it's like some people think a baby will be raped, or something.

Whatever happened between them, and SCN, happened years ago, I think it's time to let it go.
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline Razor

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2009, 07:48:47 PM »
From what I vaguely remember, it was provoked by a couple of members, then escalated when a bunch of them made accounts here to respond and it went downhill from there. Registrations were mod-approved for a few months afterwards as a result. This was in late '02/early '03 as I recall, but that was so many years ago I don't see why people still bother tip-toeing around it, the members who provoked it all in the first place haven't been here for years.

I was here at the time.  Nobody over here went and provoked them.  A criticism of EAS was posted on the SD.net forums and we posted a criticism of the criticism it got back to them and they didnt take too kindly to it.  

Look in the end this is about Flagg getting banned.  Now he was a prominent member and the only reason for his banning are some vauge comments about something he said elseware.  He was dare I say it a "friend" (in so much as a friend can be online) and as another prominent member I'd like to see some evidence backing this whole fiasco up.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2009, 07:54:34 PM »
Why can't we just post the link? With respect to Bernd, I think we should see the evidence here.

Although, the evil part of me just says no, guilty until proven innocent, be done with him, etc...

The reason we can't post a link is that we've had.... incidents... with their membership in the past.

Oh for the love of God so it was SD.net JUST POST IT!!!!  Its not like Beetlejuice where if you say the name they'll appear and start raping us.  Besides our concern is with what Flagg said that warranted a banning not anything with them.  

Everytime SD is mentioned, it's like some people think a baby will be raped, or something.

Whatever happened between them, and SCN, happened years ago, I think it's time to let it go.

"Well, I didn't see it was worth fighting about. After all, we're big enough to take a few insults, aren't we?"-Scotty

I have to agree with Xero. We're big boys here people, we can talk to others safetly. I don't think that fear should be affecting our judgement here. And if there is still something going on between US and THEM, I'm sure a seperate thread could be opened for it.

So regarding Flagg...what's left to discuss. The facts should be made evident to all. I feel that withholding them is somewhat unbenificial to this discussion, and I encourage Bernd to indulge my inquisitive nature and post them here. Please? :)
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Offline Argosy Special Ops

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2009, 08:00:26 PM »
From what I vaguely remember, it was provoked by a couple of members, then escalated when a bunch of them made accounts here to respond and it went downhill from there. Registrations were mod-approved for a few months afterwards as a result. This was in late '02/early '03 as I recall, but that was so many years ago I don't see why people still bother tip-toeing around it, the members who provoked it all in the first place haven't been here for years.

I was here at the time.  Nobody over here went and provoked them.  A criticism of EAS was posted on the SD.net forums and we posted a criticism of the criticism it got back to them and they didnt take too kindly to it.  

Look in the end this is about Flagg getting banned.  Now he was a prominent member and the only reason for his banning are some vauge comments about something he said elseware.  He was dare I say it a "friend" (in so much as a friend can be online) and as another prominent member I'd like to see some evidence backing this whole fiasco up.

Wow we’re going back to the “03” when I was a lowercase g that just joined SCN for a beef that most folks forgot about, or weren’t here to witness? Lol teh internet beefs really is serious business…I thought this was something new that I missed.

@ Razor- As far as I’m concerned I don’t need to see no stinking link because as it’s not posted on this site it should not be subject to punitive moderation. The dude pisses me off some times too, but fair is fair. 
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