Author Topic: Flagg is out  (Read 29674 times)

Offline Greg

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2009, 08:00:48 PM »
From what I vaguely remember, it was provoked by a couple of members, then escalated when a bunch of them made accounts here to respond and it went downhill from there. Registrations were mod-approved for a few months afterwards as a result. This was in late '02/early '03 as I recall, but that was so many years ago I don't see why people still bother tip-toeing around it, the members who provoked it all in the first place haven't been here for years.

I was here at the time.  Nobody over here went and provoked them.  A criticism of EAS was posted on the SD.net forums and we posted a criticism of the criticism it got back to them and they didnt take too kindly to it.  

Look in the end this is about Flagg getting banned.  Now he was a prominent member and the only reason for his banning are some vauge comments about something he said elseware.  He was dare I say it a "friend" (in so much as a friend can be online) and as another prominent member I'd like to see some evidence backing this whole fiasco up.

Ahh, that was it, I'd forgotten why the thread about SD.net had been started in the first place (which is what I meant by members here provoking them, I didn't mean they went over to SD.net and started causing trouble, at least not to my knowledge.) Either way, neither side was blameless, but it all happened so long ago it doesn't matter.

Like Razor, I too would like to see what was said that caused Flagg's ban.

Offline Broken Subspace Scene

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2009, 08:11:15 PM »
Is Flagg "Flagg" there as well?  If so, a quick Google search comes up with a nasty little comment from mid-May.

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2009, 08:17:43 PM »
I've checked and he is Flagg there too.

As for my tiptoeing, I think it's better to play it safe and not name names than to name them and get another board war started.
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Offline Setekh

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2009, 08:23:05 PM »
Here it is. Linked for context.

I think if a member is banned, we deserve to know why. Make your own opinions.

Offline Greg

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2009, 08:29:28 PM »
As for my tiptoeing, I think it's better to play it safe and not name names than to name them and get another board war started.

God knows, why, this doesn't have anything to do with SD.net other than it being the place where Flagg posted, could have easily been anywhere, the location isn't important.

Having seen the comment, while yes it's an insult, it's one post on another forum. Hardly a "campaign" or worthy of a permaban here. If he'd said it here I'd understand more and wouldn't have surprised at a temp ban, but he made one post on a another forum. Ok, I'd be pissed if it had been about me, but that's also exactly why if I was still a mod I'd have let another member of the admin staff handle it.

Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2009, 08:30:37 PM »
Perhaps it's not the comment in question...I hope it's not. This is so mild it seems almost...un-Flagglike.
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Offline Razor

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2009, 11:55:10 PM »
Having seen the comment, while yes it's an insult, it's one post on another forum. Hardly a "campaign" or worthy of a permaban here. If he'd said it here I'd understand more and wouldn't have surprised at a temp ban, but he made one post on a another forum. Ok, I'd be pissed if it had been about me, but that's also exactly why if I was still a mod I'd have let another member of the admin staff handle it.

Having seen it yes it is an insult and a very nasty one but as Greg here pointed out its hardly a campaign and its on another forum.  Hardly grounds for a perman-ban.
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Offline Kestra

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2009, 12:19:27 AM »
Couple of things:

Sorry Horton, for getting personal.  I get super protective of friends, and I consider Flagg as such.  Apologies to anyone who sat through my long post!

Second, I think it's honestly in this forum's best interest for Flagg not to be banned.

Also, I do understand everyone doesn't have the same experience with Flagg that I have.  Then again, I seem to have a unique perspective on a lot of people.  I get it, that's fine.  But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.  And I do agree that Flagg needs to dial it back, because he's absolutely horrible sometimes.  So it's not as if I think he's perfect!

I'm not sure how I feel about everyone basically doing the opposite of what Bernd asked re: not posting links.  Yeah I think we deserve a decent explanation for the permaban of such a longtime member, but I think it would have been courteous to respect Bernd's wish at least till we heard back from the mod team as a whole.
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Offline Shik

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2009, 12:36:36 AM »
But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.

Defend your thesis, please.

Offline Commodore Horton

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2009, 12:44:47 AM »
Couple of things:

Sorry Horton, for getting personal.  I get super protective of friends, and I consider Flagg as such.  Apologies to anyone who sat through my long post!

Second, I think it's honestly in this forum's best interest for Flagg not to be banned.

Also, I do understand everyone doesn't have the same experience with Flagg that I have.  Then again, I seem to have a unique perspective on a lot of people.  I get it, that's fine.  But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.  And I do agree that Flagg needs to dial it back, because he's absolutely horrible sometimes.  So it's not as if I think he's perfect!

I'm not sure how I feel about everyone basically doing the opposite of what Bernd asked re: not posting links.  Yeah I think we deserve a decent explanation for the permaban of such a longtime member, but I think it would have been courteous to respect Bernd's wish at least till we heard back from the mod team as a whole.

Nah...it wasn't that long. :)
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Offline Kestra

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2009, 12:46:44 AM »
But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.

Defend your thesis, please.

Sorry, no.
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Offline Razor

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2009, 01:56:31 AM »
I'm not sure how I feel about everyone basically doing the opposite of what Bernd asked re: not posting links.  Yeah I think we deserve a decent explanation for the permaban of such a longtime member, but I think it would have been courteous to respect Bernd's wish at least till we heard back from the mod team as a whole.

I can see that and agree with you in part but when it comes to the banning of a member particularly a prominent one like Flagg.

Quote
And I do agree that Flagg needs to dial it back, because he's absolutely horrible sometimes.  So it's not as if I think he's perfect!

Couldn't agree more.  Matter of fact I thought what he said was over the top dickish but I dont think he should be banned for it.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Stoo

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2009, 03:10:52 AM »
Defend your thesis, please.

She's trying to suggest people look past annoying habits and negative traits and see the useful contributions each other can make.

Offline Bernd

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2009, 09:28:39 AM »
Okay, I made a mistake by not consulting with anyone. The reason is that the staff may have democratically decided to ban Flagg for a week or only issue a warning, but I wanted to make a point. Not only but also because Flagg questioned that I still have anything to say at the SCN. I am discussing this with the mod staff. But I am not sorry at all getting rid of a notorious antisocial misanthropist and a person who slandered me after everything I did for him.

Personally, I never liked Flagg but I tried hard because he was a prolific member of this community, at least in terms of quantity, and I knew he had some friends over here. I supported his rehabilitation after a ban more than once in the past. I never did anything to offend him (if that is possible at all). I never had issues with him although I know he never respected me and he always gave a shit on what I said, just as he gave a shit on everyone else's arguments (unless you happen to be one of the few people he liked). Actually, I have to say in hindsight that I avoided active participation in threads in which he would likely appear and bully people at random, be it in political and religious discussions or in the Trek XI threads. Call me a pussy, but I am seeking some harmony, I dislike trouble, and when trouble arises I blame myself in the first place. And speaking of Trek XI, this is where his campaign against me started, when he (and one other member) repeatedly told me to shut up (I am not aware that I made him a mod) and called me names for daring to suggest that the Holy Huge Enterprise was designed smaller than 700m (OT: for which I now have the confirmation, I was right. Shove the 400m nacelle right up your ass, Flagg!).

Anyway, he carried this discussion to SD.net, and badmouthed (or backstabbed?) me in the home forum of people of whom many hate me for having the wrong opinions (as is quite obvious from dozens of posts). The thread at SD.net is not by far the only anti-EAS thread (actually each Trek message board has one in these days). But given our history with these people it is outrageous that someone from the SCN chimes in there and calls me names that many people over there are obviously delighted to hear. Even if it sounds like just a personal matter, Flagg is a member of an online community, and he utterly violated a very basic rule that he must not badmouth a fellow member anywhere else. And if you read carefully, Flagg did more than just criticize and insult me for my opinions. He called me a liar and insane. This is defamation. Perhaps it is a cultural phenomenon that pretty much no one understands the victim and rather defends the offender. But where I come from, his conduct is punishable. There is no excuse for him acting like this, as much as some of you try to play it down. I have a reputation that Flagg wants to damage (even if I wanted to, there would be no possibility to pay him back in his own coin), and while I can't stop him at SD.net the very least I can do is ban him from the SCN forever. A ban is the only language he understands anyway. He even implicitly called for it.

I read from your replies that many of you have sympathies for the convict. Perhaps some of you would like to be a bit like him. Hey, cyber bullying can be so cool, and those who complain and call themselves victims are just drama queens. But wake up, this is not Hollywood, and in real life you wouldn't go to House MD but to a physician who shows sympathy with your condition and who does not insult and badmouth you. None of you would likely have Flagg as a friend in real life, that is, if he is like this in real life. But the way he acts when he is online can only be called antisocial. If he decides to disagree with you, you're an idiot. If you make a point, he will ridicule it. And you can't even strike back because effectively he has no position you could target. He cares about no one and nothing. What some of you call "brutally honest" is insolent to say the least and trolling in its ultimate consequence. More than every second of Flagg's posts was tactless, disruptive, meaningless or in some other way objectionable.

I can't speak for Dan C., but I think one of the reasons why he left the SCN (he was a co-founder) was the rude manners and lacking respect of some of the members. Our current admininstration has abandoned written rules in hopes that with "soft moderation" the forum would become pretty much self-regulating. I am for the free exchange of ideas and I have never been a friend of much regulation, and so I agreed. The system worked with perhaps 95% of the forum denizens, but pretty much only with those who would have had no problem sticking to stricter rules either. It may have incited more interesting discussions (sometimes just for someone who agrees with the majority or who does not take part himself and sort of enjoys Flagg's attacks). But minorities are pushed back in a situation where they can not move on but only react to an onslaught of criticism they get for each post. And if they make the slightest mistake in quoting something they are promptly accused of lying. What is the truth? Is an argument valid or bullshit? We can easily decide in case someone says something like "Hitler was a good guy." or "Buy ringtones." or "The Defiant is 500m long." But the stronger faction at some point always plays the "bullshit" card and effectively ends the debate much like in Godwin's law (and Flagg always seems to be in the "strong" group). With Flagg's "brutal honesty" being just the tip of the iceberg. There is usually a majority among the mod staff who condones the bad conduct of Flagg or very few other rude members -- because it is allowed at the SCN, as an unwritten rule ("lex Flagg"), to call someone an idiot or call his point bullshit when only enough people support it, while in the "old" SCN he would have been banned after two warnings. There are no fervent Flagg fans among the mod staff who would always support him, but I am truly disappointed how almost everyone (including me because I usually approved) put up with his repeated misbehavior. I don't think that democracy should work like this, or even "appeal to popularity" should apply. I am of the opinion that even on very controversial issues it is possibly to have a civilized academic-style debate, but debates at the SCN have the dramaturgy of a Jerry Springer show, or as the threads at a certain other place. We are better than that, but some few people just tend to kill a so far open-minded discussion. In my view it is crucial to listen and to rethink and, most importantly, to respect the other side. Flagg respected hardly anyone. And he has lost the last bit of respect I had for him.

Something has to change at the SCN. I know of a few long-time members who left the SCN because they had probIems with the prevailing tone and/or the admin staff. I won't deny that many other people may like the present SCN just because everything is like it is. But the way it is, it is hard to get into the SCN. I am routinely sending people to the SCN, suggesting that they carry their questions and theories to the forums, and that they could get feedback on their artwork. I'm doing this with mixed feelings lately, because, while the artwork and other "light-hearted" forums are still a nice place, the close-mindedness of many threads may easily deter newbies. I don't have any statistics ready, but my impression is that the percentage of newbies who survive more than a few posts is always shrinking. This may have to do with various other factors too, such as the lack of or the lacking progress in community projects, the structure and look of the board etc. But we should not forget that a friendly atmosphere is the most important thing, and while there are definitely worse places than SCN, the atmosphere has degraded since the good old days. I want the SCN to be a place of open discussion, of mutual respect and of collaboration (where the latter does not mean collaborative mockery of other people). Perhaps we should return to written rules? In any case the SCN can only become such a place again if people like Flagg are gone (or if they change for the better).

I have been wanting to post these general remarks (only without user names) already for a couple of months, but I hesitated because it would stir up a controversy out of the blue. Now that Flagg has led me to ban him, it is a good time to put this forward too.

If my general notes sound like an excuse for me banning Flagg, it isn't one. I freely admit that the main reason was his posting at SD.net and not anything that he did previously. If anyone calls this a personal vendetta instead of a proper mod action, you may be right. But I neither started the vendetta nor did I do anything to Flagg to encourage him. You should not blame me for an offense that he committed against me without any provocation!

If Flagg should ever return to this place, it means that I have been overruled. Flagg wins, and his fans rejoice. I am not yet sure how I will handle such a situation but it is clear that I will not simply put up with it. I am a hard-working person in real life and in my online life. I am always kind to everyone. Flagg has misused my benevolence. In his online life he is a mean and overall useless person who will probably not change for the better just as I will never bully people. And that is why I will not accept and much less agree to his readmission.

Offline Shik

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2009, 09:29:36 AM »
Defend your thesis, please.

She's trying to suggest people look past annoying habits and negative traits and see the useful contributions each other can make.

Why, that's just crazy talk, good sir! The poor woman is daft, most likely off on some sort of laudanum muddle-headedness! To the sanitarium with her, I say!

Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2009, 09:41:19 AM »
Dude, you can hardly call everything that Flagg's done "calling a bad name."  I don't fucking care how much you liked him, he has consistently harassed myself and others over the years, to the point where I generally don't put in my two-cents around here because I don't feel like putting up with him.  Does that whole "mangina" crap ring any bells?  He still sometimes goes on about it, years after Bond told him to stop.  Or how about the fact that he rarely seems at all interested in actual discussion about anything, such as in the Heroes thread, where he decided to piss all over it since day one?

The last time Flagg initiated a "mangina" comment about you was in 2006. I looked it up. That's also about the time the 'Heroes' thread you're referring to took place in Season One. Afterward he mostly left it alone, probably because by Season Two on we all agreed that it was shit. Really, is this the kind of stuff you wanted to cite as examples? A dumb running joke that is clearly not serious and was overused by many (Flagg was not the only one or even the most frequent) and his dislike for a show from three years ago that he stopped commenting on?

I thoroughly enjoyed my interaction with Flagg back when we had Dan C’s censorship in play several boards ago. I think I started posting here less when that was repealed, because it is quite difficult for me to read people when reading text on a screen. That coupled with my signature character flaw of flying off the handle at any perceived slight has seriously drawn down my participation here lest I wear out my welcome permanently.  I’m by no means advocating that we turn the clock back on the censorship thing, but for me at least there does seem to be a correlation there.

While I appreciate that different people have different levels of what they find tolerable online, from my own perspective I thought the whole censorship thing was absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it got to the point where he censored the word "whore" (and variations thereof) by replacing letters with asterisks, when that word has many alternate uses than just calling someone a name. It was always completely obvious what the person was saying anyway, so if a reader can easily tell what the word is, then what's the point of censoring it? So they can pretend they don't know what it says and feel better about being protected from words they already recognize and understand? TV does it to avoid FCC fines, but internet forums are under no such restrictions, thankfully.

Not really sure how this affects the Flagg situation though. Words are just words, intent is everything. You can be just as insulting without using curse words, or you can be completely friendly with someone or joking around while using the same words. Replacing some letters with asterisks isn't going to change whether they're insulting someone or not.

Quote
And it’s a bit offensive to my provincial American sensibility to think that someone can have sanctions levied against them let alone be permanently banned for freely speaking their mind in another venue out side of the board rules here.

Yes, I take issue with this as well. If Flagg had been taking part in a genuine "campaign" against Bernd, ie. calling for SD.net members to join SCN only to insult him, or to spam up EAS, I might agree with his banning, if not the method used. But it's unprecedented on this or any other forum I've frequented to ban someone for simply having a negative opinion of one of the staff, regardless of how insulting it may be. Hell, if that were the case, I would have banned several people from here years ago just for insulting me on our former sister board. I've had people say they would kick my ass, I've had people organize to try and get rid of me as an admin (one of whom used it as leverage when offering to host the forum), and I've been called names and been lied about numerous times. Hell, I've had people insult me right here (even going so far as putting it in their sig) and I didn't punish them for it.

When that happens, I deal with it by either ignoring the issue and getting over it, because that's life, or if it becomes a major problem, confronting the person or persons responsible on the board they made the comments at, or in a PM or email. Usually, the people were just pissed and you can both move on after discussing it. Sometimes you can't. But it's better to try than to just write someone off as unable to be reasoned with or to ban them outright after years of membership. And, believe it or not, as harsh as Flagg comes off sometimes, and I'm fully aware of that, if you try and discuss things with the guy privately and ask him to stop, he's actually pretty reasonable.

Perhaps it's not the comment in question...I hope it's not. This is so mild it seems almost...un-Flagglike.

Yes, that's the comment in question, and it's nothing Flagg wouldn't tell a person here "to their face," albeit probably in slightly milder language. So it's not as if he was conducting some kind of long-term secret "campaign" behind anyone's back.

It's absolutely rude and worthy of being called out on here, there, or in a PM/email if Bernd wanted too. But if we're going to start punishing people for what they say about staff-members on completely different forums, we're going to get a lot lonelier around here.

But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.

Defend your thesis, please.

She doesn't have to defend her friendship to anyone. She just said there's more to him than insults if you don't judge the book by its cover.

I'll gladly provide some answers, however.

- Whenever this board has been in trouble with hosting, Flagg's always been one of the first to offer to help financially.

- He is an absolutely loyal friend who will offer good advice without any BS if you look past the gruff exterior and give the guy a chance.

- When he was banned before, he didn't run off and badmouth the staff or SCN on other boards, he didn't try and organize anyone to retaliate, and he waited a while before politely asking to return. Which puts him a class above some other people who have been banned or who did so without even being banned.

- He provides insightful political commentary of a kind I find lacking amongst a lot of other posters, and even when I disagree with him 100%, between the insults his arguments are usually pretty damn solid.

- He's never made any threats, demands, or felt that the staff or membership here owed him anything. Which again puts him a cut above several people.

- He's funny, clever, and has plenty to offer if you bother to engage him in a real discussion, whether publicly or privately. He's a big part of adding to the "flavor" of this forum, and I think his absence will be damaging to discussion here in the long run.

- Regardless of how he may feel about someone personally, he won't hesitate to stand up for them publicly or by PMing me and asking me to say something. You for instance, Shik. He defended you both publicly and by telling me in private when he felt some people were getting carried away attacking you.

Now, this doesn't excuse his behavior towards others, which often bugs me too and which I frequently commented on both publicly and privately. But to be blunt, there are numerous other behaviors I find much worse when done consistently than a little namecalling.

I think the main thing to consider here is, Flagg isn't being banned for his behavior here, since he's been relatively quiet here compared to his more frequent activity in the past. He's being banned for an insulting post he made elsewhere, and I just don't see how that is enforcable, especially not unilaterally like this, without damaging the credibility of the site and the way things operate here.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 09:44:29 AM by Bond, James Bond »

Offline Shik

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2009, 09:57:05 AM »
But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.

Defend your thesis, please.

She doesn't have to defend her friendship to anyone. She just said there's more to him than insults if you don't judge the book by its cover.

I'll gladly provide some answers, however.

Thank you. That helps my curiosity, some. Just to clarify, I did not ask because I'm all "Oh man, Flagg is gone, let's have a party! FUCKIN' JÄGERBOMBS FOR EVERYONE!!" I was genuinely curious as to what some of this "hidden awesomeness" was as I really don't know anyone here all that well, & I'm always interested in finding out these things.

As far as Flagg goes..I'm relatively indifferent to him & all of this. Yeah, he pissed me off many times & yeah, I probably didn't participate in some things because he was involved, but that's my decision, innit? I knew I'd probably have some serious defense I'd have to make & I had neither the time, the energy, nor the inclination to do so & therefore dropped whatever dumb thing I might've said. As regards the man personally, well..I don't know anything about him, just the internet persona, which I regarded as one of those "force of nature" things that's just dumb to rebel against.

I dunno. I  think that when it comes to Flagg, regardless of the situation, things tend to get super escalated because of who & how he is. But that's a personal opinion that has little grounding in actual fact & has no relevance to the situation at had, which...well, doesn't concern me. I'd think this is something for the administration to handle & vox populi is best left alone.

Offline Xero

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #67 on: June 18, 2009, 10:02:52 AM »
Bond, I would also like to mention the time Flagg even stood up for White Wolf, when Nerd was on his ass for some reason. Dispite the fact Flagg used to describe WW as "SCN's sacred cow".

Flagg was also one of the few people here willing to stand up to CX, and various other trolls.
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Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #68 on: June 18, 2009, 10:09:18 AM »
If Flagg should ever return to this place, it means that I have been overruled. Flagg wins, and his fans rejoice. I am not yet sure how I will handle such a situation but it is clear that I will not simply put up with it. I am a hard-working person in real life and in my online life. I am always kind to everyone. Flagg has misused my benevolence. In his online life he is a mean and overall useless person who will probably not change for the better just as I will never bully people.

Isn't implying that you'll leave - which is basically what you did here and in other past comments over this overblown Trek XI issue - if the staff doesn't fall in line with your unilateral decision in itself a form of bullying? I have no desire to see you leave, and making that contingent on us agreeing with you without compromise simply compounds the issue and makes your behavior all the more unprofessional.

Offline Kestra

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #69 on: June 18, 2009, 10:10:35 AM »
But you guys are missing out on awesome things about each other.

Defend your thesis, please.

She doesn't have to defend her friendship to anyone. She just said there's more to him than insults if you don't judge the book by its cover.

I'll gladly provide some answers, however.

Thank you. That helps my curiosity, some. Just to clarify, I did not ask because I'm all "Oh man, Flagg is gone, let's have a party! FUCKIN' JÄGERBOMBS FOR EVERYONE!!" I was genuinely curious as to what some of this "hidden awesomeness" was as I really don't know anyone here all that well, & I'm always interested in finding out these things.

Sorry I was so rude about it!  I never know how to respond to you.

I have a personal friendship with Flagg that has formed over the years and has been very valuable to me.  The past ... year?  Two years?  Have been very rough on me.  And he's been a patient friend through all of it, listening to me basically cry about the same stuff over and over, letting me vent when I needed to, and showing support where he could.  All in a very Flagg-like manner, making me laugh at times I didn't think it was possible.

The whole hidden awesomeness thing isn't just about Flagg, though.  I've gotten to know several people on this forum really well, and I always get sad that they don't see the same things in each other that I see in each of them.  I know I know, I'm ridiculous.  But just as Mants hasn't seen some of the best qualities in Flagg, I don't think Flagg realizes how awesome Mants is.

Okay, I'm cutting myself off here.  Basic point:  Everyone has hidden awesomeness!  Go find it yourself!
... dancing in the night in the middle of June ...

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #70 on: June 18, 2009, 10:14:20 AM »
- He's funny, clever, and has plenty to offer if you bother to engage him in a real discussion, whether publicly or privately. He's a big part of adding to the "flavor" of this forum, and I think his absence will be damaging to discussion here in the long run.

Seems to me that the last time he got a permaban that it was damaging to this place. Gave him something of an untouchable quality in my mind.
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Offline Bond, James Bond

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #71 on: June 18, 2009, 10:26:11 AM »
- He's funny, clever, and has plenty to offer if you bother to engage him in a real discussion, whether publicly or privately. He's a big part of adding to the "flavor" of this forum, and I think his absence will be damaging to discussion here in the long run.

Seems to me that the last time he got a permaban that it was damaging to this place. Gave him something of an untouchable quality in my mind.

I don't see how. His re-admittance was agreed upon by everyone (it wasn't just me letting him back in if that's the implication, and I didn't even initiate the discussion to bring him back IIRC), he's not the first person to be banned and re-admitted, and if he was ever untouchable the initial ban, later warnings, and the current situation probably wouldn't be an issue.

Does anyone have anything relevant to an issue that I don't have to use the search function to remember because it happened years ago?

Offline Shik

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #72 on: June 18, 2009, 10:31:09 AM »
Does anyone have anything relevant to an issue that I don't have to use the search function to remember because it happened years ago?

I hear he's a furry. BURN HIM!!!

Offline Kestra

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #73 on: June 18, 2009, 10:38:14 AM »
Does anyone have anything relevant to an issue that I don't have to use the search function to remember because it happened years ago?

I hear he's a furry. BURN HIM!!!

No no you've got it all wrong.  Stoo's the one that's a furry.
... dancing in the night in the middle of June ...

Offline Ottens

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Re: Flagg is out
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2009, 11:05:28 AM »
Wow, I don't stop around for a couple of days and this is what happens. It's like the End of an Era.
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