Author Topic: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc  (Read 20751 times)

Offline Simon

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2010, 09:55:36 AM »
The only remaining appearances for Song this series is in the final two parter.  Three times is not too much...it's about as often as the Daleks appear each week now! :P

Offline The Daft Punk

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2010, 12:21:59 PM »
Four episodes out of a series that has, what, twelve episodes? That's a third of the series.
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"Until a man is 25, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial arts monastery in China and studied real hard for 10 years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad."
- "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson

Offline Simon

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2010, 02:09:59 PM »
Thirteen episodes, and since the four Song is in are both two-parters it is a little skewed.  She's much less annoying than that Rory character who is tagging along now!  Jack aside, does the Doctor have any male companions who aren't irritating??

Offline The Daft Punk

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2010, 03:07:03 PM »
I like Rory, he's probably the only companion so far who's called the Doctor on any of his bullshit. it's refreshing to have a companion that isn't in immediate awe of him and everything he does.
Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger
~~~~~~~~
"Until a man is 25, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial arts monastery in China and studied real hard for 10 years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad."
- "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2010, 08:00:49 PM »
Flesh and Stone: Nice wrap up to the 2 parter. Probably the creepiest part for me was after the Angels realized that Amy couldn't see them and started moving.
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Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2010, 11:19:53 PM »
Flesh and Stone

Finally figured out what was bugging me about these two episodes.  The angels didn't cover their faces.  We were told that they always cover their faces because they're afraid of looking at each other, because it would freeze them in stone forever.  Its how the Doctor beat them the first time we saw them, by making them look at each other.  None of these angels covered their faces, and seemed to have no problems just looking anywhere they wanted.  Even if we want to say it would be pitch black in there and that they knew they couldn't see each other when the lights finally went out, there's another problem.  They froze because they thought Amy could see them.  Her eyes were very obviously closed.  If these things can run right up into your face whenever you so much as blink, why the hell would they assume someone with their eyes closed intentionally could see them?  Also, the reason given as to why they were killing people was so that they could reanimate part of the brain to communicate with.  Why keep on killing after that goal had been achieved?  Sure, there was a big radiation buffet, but why not just zap people like the Bishop as a snack instead of wasting him with a neck snapping?  And oi, the paradoxes!  Fall into the schism and you're burned out of history like you never existed.  Except that every angel there fell in, so what made the ship crash that started all of this if there was never an angel on it?  If the clerics were written out of history, why didn't new ones take their place?  The Bishop would have brought in the same number of guys either way, so where were the new guys?  And for that matter, where are those world eaters that are supposed to show up when horrible things like this happen to the timeline (from the episode where Rose kept her father from being killed)?  Having a dozen plus angels wiped from history should have caused quite a bit more of a ripple than one lousy human not getting hit by a car.  And why was River taken back into custody?  The deal was she got her parole for neutralizing the Angel... that now never existed, so she shouldn't have been there in the first place.  But even given that she was, wouldn't someone else have to remember that she was sent to handle the Angel to know to send a prison ship to pick her up?  Wow, this entire pair of episodes just completely falls apart when you stop to look at it.

And is anyone else picking up on this Doctor being very angry?  Seems like every episode he's yelling and banging his fists on things.  Its just so very... un-Doctor-ish.  He gets frustrated and upset so easily, where is the classic sense of calm that all of his predecessors had?  10 managed to pull off the whole "I've got centuries of exprience at this, I know the power that I wield, don't cross me" in a quiet fury kind of way, but 11 here seems so much more... childish?  Yes, as much as I hate to say it, this Doctor is very childish, and not in the good "child like wonder" kind of way.

What about Amy Pond now?  While I'll admit I enjoy seeing a more... aggressive... female role in here, and she had some awesome lines ("So, its been a while?"), why is she suddenly "the most important person in the history of the universe"?  What about Donna Noble, Doctor?  Seems like he just finished with the most important person ever, and now he's just instantly found an even more important one?

One last thing, anyone else pick up the vibe that the person Song killed was the Doctor himself?  And from the sound of it, it wasn't one he could regenerate and walk away from.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 11:58:55 PM by Edymnion »

Offline Data007

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2010, 01:25:58 AM »
As per the Doctor's conduct, I'd chalk it partially up to frustration. Especially reflected in the line in The Beast Below.

Quote
The Doctor: Nobody talk to me. Nobody
[violently slams hand down on console]
The Doctor: *HUMAN* has anything to say to me today!

Humans do pretty good most of the time in Doctor Who, but there are the occasional glaring examples of our less than perfect nature, in this case, our somewhat narrow sight. That point had the Doctor making an exceptionally difficult choice. So yeah, I think he got frustrated.
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Offline Simon

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2010, 02:18:56 AM »
Not that the Doctor's brain was working especially well in "The Beast Below" anyway.  All those centuries of experience and all the options, and what does he choose to do...lobotomise the last space whale in the universe.  Yeah, 'cause that's really a lot better than torturing it.  How about using the Tardis to tow Starship UK...how about moving all the survivors into the Tardis, which for all we known stretches for eternity inside...how about building a conventional engine for Starship UK?  Nope, we'll lobotomise an ancient and kind star-creature instead...more fun if we're looking down on our noses at people while essentially committing genocide.

Offline Stoo

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2010, 05:21:53 AM »
As i understood it, they all thought the whale would trash the starship once it was freed, so thinking up alternative propulsion would be kinda missing the point.

Looking back though Edymnion has a point with the plot holes in the Angels eps. Funnily enough, none of that ever occured to me while watching. I think with Who I've reached a point where I'm here for character drama and spookyness primarily and just live with the lack of coherence in some of the stories.

The doctor getting angry doesn't bother me. Nine yelled about stupid apes a few times.

Anyway this thread's getting a bit tricky to manage given America being out of sync. For now I'll just say I liked Amy's Choice, and the contrast between the Doc's world and Rory's ideal one.

Although what the hell was going on with the ponytail? It wasn't one of those you have when your hair is long all over and you tie it all back. It was.. a MULLET pontail. argh.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 05:41:39 AM by Stoo »

Offline Stoo

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2010, 08:49:41 AM »
Ok this has been bugging me, is that meant to be a variant spelling on Endymion?

Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2010, 02:18:52 PM »
Ok this has been bugging me, is that meant to be a variant spelling on Endymion?
Yup.  Endymion is a greek mythological character (and later an anime character), so it was everywhere.  Slight tweak and I wound up with a unique name that can easily be shortened to a normal nick (Edy).

Offline The Daft Punk

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2010, 02:55:36 PM »
And one that is impossible to pronounce!
Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger
~~~~~~~~
"Until a man is 25, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial arts monastery in China and studied real hard for 10 years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad."
- "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson

Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2010, 07:46:41 PM »
And one that is impossible to pronounce!
Ed-im-neon.
Ed like the name, im as in "dim", neon as in the gas.

Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2010, 03:06:35 PM »

Offline MageGrayWolf

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2010, 04:13:58 AM »
As much fun as this season has been the plot holes have been big enough to fly a Death Star through.

Just to name a few in this last episode that played on BBC America.

You would think Amy and her fiance would have stuck out like sore thumbs dressed the way they were in 1500 century Venice. Maybe the Doctor used a perception filter of his own, but this was never stated.
The mama's boy fish vampire seemed way to easy to kill with that reflected light off Amy's compact mirror. Further more since they had already started blotting out the sky by then and it was clearly overcast to begin with, what was it she was reflecting at the fish? Further more in the beginning we see more light then from Amy's compact hit him in the face.

Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2010, 11:47:28 AM »
Actually, I think they covered that in the Donna Noble episode with Pompei when she was asking why everybody spoke english and why nobody commented on their clothes.  The Doctor half hand waved it away saying the Tardis had a translation effect, and that it basically applied to their clothes as well.  Sort of like you said, low level perception filter.

Doesn't explain why some historical renditions of him show the Doctor wearing his suit though, or why one of the first things Captain Jack said was how badly the Dr. and Rose stood out (I recall "flag girl" being mentioned in relation to her union jack t-shirt).

So yeah, I'll go with very low level perception filter.  If you stop and pay attention to what they're wearing, you'll see that they stand out.  If you're just walking past them on the street, you won't even notice that they're there at all (not just their clothes, but that you won't realize someone walked past you) unless you're specifically looking for someone to be there.

Offline The Unbound

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2010, 06:49:26 AM »
Makes sense. Would also explain why nobody pays any attention when the Doctor's enthusiastically explaining how the planet/time period they've landed in works.

That episode wasn't particularly ... let's say 'good'. The fish-vampires were never set up as a particularly credible threat, and the ending, with the doctor climbing a tower and turning off the alien Doom Machine™ by flicking a switch was lame.

I liked the last one I've seen, with the underground lizards (I don't think I've spoiled anything by saying that), much better.
Steady on.

Offline Stoo

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2010, 10:22:38 AM »
Killing the Fish-guy with a reflected beam of light was pretty stupid. Have him all writhing in pain maybe, but not turning to ash.

Will comment more on this latest two-parter when it's done. The Silurians don't seem particularly threatening either but maybe they have some Diabolical Plan like poisoning the entire earth's water supply.

Offline The Unbound

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2010, 03:20:07 AM »
Well, they're an at least millions of years old civilization with (probably) the ability to move around underground relatively unhindered. Even if they don't have any massively destructive superweapons, it probably woudn't be a simple matter to defeat them in a straight up shooting war. Which, I got the impression, is what that prisoner warrior woman wanted to do.

Anyway, they can do that bio-programming thing, which could probably be put to come creative uses, and they're dissecting live humans. They're not the 'destroy the world at the flick of a button' kind of villain, but those aren't particularly interesting anyway. I genuinely like this setup.
Steady on.

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2010, 08:11:26 PM »
The Vampires of Venice: Not bad. An interesting twist on the idea of Vampires being aliens. Considering how detailed the Saturnynians (the 'vampires') were, I think we can forgive any dodgy effects in the rest of the episode, personally. The ending when everything went quiet was quite eerie. I look forward to next week.
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Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2010, 12:21:07 PM »
The more of this Doctor I see, the less I like him.  Thing is, the more I see of Amy Pond, the more I like her.  If we could have had her and Tennant together, my God, that would have been perfect.

As to why I don't like him, there's several ideas floating around in my head, some are unfair, and some are contradictory (which is also unfair, but no one ever said opinions and feelings were fair).

1) He's too young.
I realize we've had previous Doctors roughly the same age that more or less pulled it off, but I don't think Matt Smith is.  Peter Davison (5th Doctor) was 29 when he started, Smith is 27.  Personal matter of opinion, but I like my Doctors in their mid-30's at the earliest.  Its very difficult for a younger actor to portrait that image of someone with the weight of time on their shoulders that the Doctor would have, and while Smith tries, those are the most artificial and forced bits of acting in the show to me.

2) He's not David Tennant.
This is so brutally unfair I hate to even voice it, but here it is anyway.  Tennant was, for me, the best Doctor we ever had.  Even better than Tom Baker (my first Doctor).  If anybody needed to be the one to give Tom a run for his money for longest running Doctor, it was David.  He said it best himself in his last episode, "There was so much more I could have done... but I was brilliant, wasn't I?"  I understand his reasons for leaving, and I wish him well, but the fact he can never come back as anything more than a cameo once a decade or so saddens me greatly.

3) No dignity.
A contradictory one here.  Other than Tennant, my favorite Doctor was Baker, and no one would say he was the epitome of good taste or dignity.  But there's just something about this Smith's Doctor that, I dunno, just doesn't seem to care.  Tennant and Eccleston both could be silly and whimsicle while still being, I dunno, respectable.  Smith just comes across as a goof up.

4) Pandering.
I think this one is unfair as well, but it seems like the execs took at look at the main viewing audience, saw that it was mostly socially awkward 20 somethings, and decided to make the Doctor reflect that audience for identifiability purposes.  I know the general regard for age and wisdom has declined since Dr. Who started, which helps to explain the decreased age, but watching this Doctor just seems painful.  There's the inept nerd running around with a smoking hot redhead that just screams geek wish fulfillment to me.

5) Lack of trust.
Not sure how to title this one, but in general, the past Doctors have been more of the "If you get into a spot, and the Doctor shows up, you trust your life to him without reservation, and he'll get you through".  This new Doctor though?  I don't feel like I'd trust him to watch my dog, much less trust him with my life.  Any other Doctor shows up on my doorstep, I'd be doing my damndest to get myself invited along for an adventure.  Matt Smith's Doctor shows up, I feel like I'd tell him to get the hell off my property and take whatever bad luck he has following him with 'em.  Unless Amy Pond was there in one of those mini-skirts, and that I'd have a clear opportunity to push her fiance off a cliff without getting caught, then I'd go.  "No no Doctor, you go ahead and stop the Daleks, Amy and I will just stay here in the Tardis.  We'll go see if the pool has a hot tub or not, I bet you'd like a nice soak once you're done saving the universe."

Offline Stoo

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2010, 12:48:41 PM »
He's incredibly old, in that goofy young body. He's seen so much. And there's a thousand thought processes whirring away that we can't figure out because he's just a bit distant and alien. He's the time lord and we're just kids, really. He's just not wearing his sadness so close the surface as Ten.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 12:51:05 PM by Stoo »

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2010, 02:32:39 PM »
Agreed.

Anyway, on Saturday I saw Amy's Choice. It was an interesting one in a couple of ways. The first was the fact that, technically, the Doctor himself was the bad guy this time around. The second was the use of the bird calls to trigger their switch from dream to dream, don't know why just thought it was neat. Only dodgy bit to me was the effects for people turning to dust.
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Offline The Daft Punk

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2010, 07:43:32 PM »
He's incredibly old, in that goofy young body. He's seen so much. And there's a thousand thought processes whirring away that we can't figure out because he's just a bit distant and alien. He's the time lord and we're just kids, really. He's just not wearing his sadness so close the surface as Ten.

Agreed. I love how he's actually thousands of years old, but he looks like he's 20-something. Moreover, I never liked Tennant. He was prone to theatrics, and came off like a smarmy douche, especially towards the end. Then again, that's probably more with Russell T. Davies god-awful writing. He gives Deus Ex Machina a bad name, he used it so much.
Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger
~~~~~~~~
"Until a man is 25, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial arts monastery in China and studied real hard for 10 years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad."
- "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson

Offline The Unbound

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Re: The Doctor returns, spoilers etc etc
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2010, 12:34:08 PM »
He's nine hundred and ... and ... something-or-other.

Anyway, I had problems with Smith's doctor as well. He seems sort of off, had a strangely detached attitude to his own behavior, especially his method of problem-solving. Lines to the effect of "Sch. You have to wait 'till I've finished talking or I'll never work this out." and "I don't know what the plain is yet. I'll work it out as we get there." spring to mind as things that annoyed me. He always seemed a little detached from the situation, even from himself. He's very aloof, you might say, which is a big change from the last two.

I have to say, though, he's been growing on me these past few episodes. The scene where he takes out a chair and sits down for a talk with the reptilian warrior prisoner lady, for instance, struck me as ... right.

Hm... I seem to be having difficulties putting all this into words.
Steady on.