Author Topic: The Jellyfish  (Read 11907 times)

Offline Oztrekkie

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The Jellyfish
« on: January 11, 2011, 12:59:17 PM »
After watching the Star trek 2009 movie about five times, I started to wonder about the Jellyfish starship.
What makes that sucker tick, and why is it so fast?

The movie describes it as the Vulcan Science Academies fastest ship. So why am I getting so worked up? The spinning nacelles.

Is this some futuristic technology from the future? How would that work? Why would it translate to a higher efficiancy rating, and a higher warp factor? I need answers, and hopefully one of you knows them (or at least one)

Junk food for thought...
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Offline Bernd

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 02:17:31 PM »
Well, I have a general problem with starships that have big moving parts because traditionally in Star Trek everything is done with (force)field technology, and changing the forcefield or warp field shape is usually easily done without changing the emitter geometry. In the case of Voyager we still have a plausible explanation that tilting the whole nacelles may be more efficient than regulating the plasma flow to be asymmetrical inside the nacelle. And it's not a big effort, considering that the nacelles may remain in much the same position during the flight (Actually there are only two positions. But we may imagine there are more different settings).

The spinning nacelles, on the other hand, don't seem to make much sense. We might see them as a further development of the Vulcan annular warp drive, so there is some consistency in the design. But there is nothing that couldn't be done much easier with a fixed annular nacelle and a rotating activation sequence of the coils (or with rotating plasma if you like).

Offline The Unbound

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 03:44:09 PM »
Except of course that you'd have to have warp coils fixed in place across the entire surface that the spinny-thing sweeps out, which would make the ship (probably) much heavier. And of course less elegant and futuristic-looking.

Mind you, I never liked the spinning thing either, and I really don't see how it fits together with every other warp engine arrangement we've seen.
Steady on.

Offline Oztrekkie

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 05:18:24 PM »
I was thinking that perhaps the two long fin nacelles at the back acted as some kind of stabilizer to the internal nacelle's warp field.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI', reH QaQqu' nay' "
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Offline Oztrekkie

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 10:06:08 PM »
Just today was googleing through blogs, and remembered that there was a shot of the Jellyfish under construction. Here it is:

Now, when I first glanced at the grainy preview, i was excited, because I thought that perhaps mr. Abrams would have been kind enough to provide just a tiny bit of information, but no dice. After blowing the pic up, it would appear that the nacelles had been finished and skinned over. Too Bad.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 10:09:03 PM by Oztrekkie »
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Offline J.Grey

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 07:42:18 AM »
My take on this, unpopular although it will probably be is that this movie isn't "Star Trek", it's a big screen adaptation of "Star Trek". If you accept it for what it is, never following canon, never giving more than a cursory nod to design criteria then it's likeable enough. Designs were simply meant to look big and cool onscreen, trying to find any other explanation in them will probably drive you crazy. Accept it as entertainment and keep the explanations for classic trek where they actually did try to keep it consistent. The JJ-verse is just a bit of popcorn movie fun.

Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 01:52:33 PM »
Agreed.  There is Trek Prime and there is NuTrek.  What happens in one has no baring on the other.

Offline Xero

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 02:10:58 PM »
Agreed.  There is Trek Prime and there is NuTrek.  What happens in one has no baring on the other.

Though the Narada, Spock, Nero, and the Jellyfish ARE from the Prime Universe. Meaning NuTrek is 100% canon, they're just in a altered timeline. Well, Spock is anyway, since he;s the only one from it to survive/not get blown up.
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Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 08:47:59 AM »
Agreed.  There is Trek Prime and there is NuTrek.  What happens in one has no baring on the other.

Though the Narada, Spock, Nero, and the Jellyfish ARE from the Prime Universe. Meaning NuTrek is 100% canon, they're just in a altered timeline. Well, Spock is anyway, since he;s the only one from it to survive/not get blown up.
I'm sorry, but there was just so much I consider wrong with even the prime material that I dismiss the whole thing as being just bookend hand waving to pacify the prime fans.

Red matter, the jellyfish ship, the fact that a beat up old run of the mill romulan mining ship could decimate entire fleets of TOS era warships, it was just too much absurdity for the sake of plot devices.

Offline Admiral TVar

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 06:23:11 PM »
STO explains the Narada as having been a mining vessel that was HEAVLY modified with Borg tech and looking at it it really does look like what youd get if you mixed Romulan and Borg
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Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 06:37:43 PM »
That detail was lifted from the prequel comic.
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Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 09:01:07 PM »
Patching holes in alternate media does not mean the holes did not exist in the movie itself.  Even if that detail was planned to be released that way from the beginning, the simple fact is that it was never referenced in the primary work.  In the film, they're romulans that have a mining ship that go back in time, and somehow its massive and powerful enough to take out everything in it's path.

Its either post-production plot hole filling to say it was borg enhanced (and that just brings up further questions, like how the romulans got ahold of borg tech, why it was wasted on a mining vessel, or if the mining vessel was assimilated why was it still being manned by a mining crew instead of being reverse engineered?), or they knew about it before hand and intentionally left a gaping plot hole in the main movie.  Its just sloppy either way.

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 01:49:24 AM »
The comic explains it as the Romulans reverse engineered Borg tech, then once Nero found the facility that was doing the research, he asked them to use the Narada to test out what they had made. (shrug) Take it or leave it.
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Offline J.Grey

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 02:55:00 AM »
The design of the Narada was extremely jarring. It simply made no sense and didn't fit into any kind of design aesthetic, Romulan or Borg. Such a radical departure requires explanation in the film. It's just another example of how the makers of this film had no respect for the material or the audience. The film treats you like you're a complete idiot who'll accept any crap they put up on the screen. It's not just JJ that took this route so I'm not saving all my bile for him. Nemesis was a total train-wreck of a film, as was Insurrection. Insurrection started out as a deep exploration of the darkness within the Federation. The cast objected so they lightened the material and it ended up a cluttered mess of a film with Jews and Space Nazis and the Enterprise crew taking every opportunity to smile at the camera to show how light-hearted everything was. Also the special effects sucked. Nemesis wanted to go out on a bang so everything was bigger and better. Unfortunately they missed. Good concept but flawed with terrible writing and a villain who just didn't make any sense. I also hated the gratuitous death of Data for no real purpose and don't even get me started on the transporter flash-pen.

I also didn't like the Jelly-fish... sorry, back on topic.  ;D

Offline Edymnion

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 10:47:45 AM »
The comic explains it as the Romulans reverse engineered Borg tech, then once Nero found the facility that was doing the research, he asked them to use the Narada to test out what they had made. (shrug) Take it or leave it.
I'll leave it.  Again, none of this was addressed in the movie, where the problem existed, and it just makes it even worse really,  I mean, romulans reverse engineering borg tech, everybody in the quadrant is probably doing that, so no qualms there.  But Nero is a lousy mining ship captain.  One, how did he know it was going on?  Its not like the Romulans are exactly an open, truthful society that shares everything it does with every Joe Dirt asteroid digger in the empire, right?  Two, why would the romulans outfit a rusty old mining ship with uber-tech in the first place, instead of putting it in say a D'derix, or better yet building a dedicated testing platform ship?  Wouldn't it make more sense, if we want to assume the use of the mining ship is acceptable, to have the Tal'shiar replace the entire crew with their own people?

And if they didn't tell Nero about it, and he just accidentally stumbled across what must have been the single most top secret facility in the entire Romulan empire, why wouldn't they have just blown him out f the sky the instant he breached the security perimeter?

Just way way WAY too much nonsense has to be given a handwave just to set up why the ship could possibly exist in the first place, and thats before we even get to ridiculousness of the ship itself.

Offline Data007

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 01:15:19 PM »
I have to agree with Edymnion here, with just how drastically different the Narada looks compared to pretty much anything we've ever seen from the Beta Quadrant before.
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Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 02:31:01 PM »
The comic explains it as the Romulans reverse engineered Borg tech, then once Nero found the facility that was doing the research, he asked them to use the Narada to test out what they had made. (shrug) Take it or leave it.
I'll leave it.  Again, none of this was addressed in the movie, where the problem existed, and it just makes it even worse really,  I mean, romulans reverse engineering borg tech, everybody in the quadrant is probably doing that, so no qualms there.  But Nero is a lousy mining ship captain.  One, how did he know it was going on?  Its not like the Romulans are exactly an open, truthful society that shares everything it does with every Joe Dirt asteroid digger in the empire, right?  Two, why would the romulans outfit a rusty old mining ship with uber-tech in the first place, instead of putting it in say a D'derix, or better yet building a dedicated testing platform ship?  Wouldn't it make more sense, if we want to assume the use of the mining ship is acceptable, to have the Tal'shiar replace the entire crew with their own people?

And if they didn't tell Nero about it, and he just accidentally stumbled across what must have been the single most top secret facility in the entire Romulan empire, why wouldn't they have just blown him out f the sky the instant he breached the security perimeter?

Just way way WAY too much nonsense has to be given a handwave just to set up why the ship could possibly exist in the first place, and thats before we even get to ridiculousness of the ship itself.

Some of that was also explained in the comic, most of it being related to the Praetor and his people managing to get off the planet in time and being picked up by Nero and his crew. As with the Kelvan's captain, he took what info he could get, then they... had an 'accident' with an airlock.
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Offline TNC

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 02:33:18 PM »
From what I've read on Memory Beta: Nero rescued the Preator and "acquired" the location and access codes to a top-secret research facility known as The Vault.  When he got there he talked to one of the researchers and they installed the Borg tech on the Narada and he began his quest for revenge. (FLO beat me to it...) Here's what the Narada looked like in the comic before the refit.

Should they have explained the Borg and why the Narada looked the way it did in the movie in addition to the prequel comic?  Maybe, however they had to cut out the parts about Nero's 25 years at Rura Penthe for time reasons so...  Do I like the way the Narada looks?  No, not really. (Though one or two of the concept sketches might have made a decent Species 8472 ship).

More on topic, I like the Jellyfish.
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Offline Starlost

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Re: The Jellyfish
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2014, 02:51:31 PM »
AbramsVerse.  I may be learning to dislike it........
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