Author Topic: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$  (Read 27276 times)

Offline Razor

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #550 on: October 23, 2017, 07:59:13 PM »
I really liked the call out to the Enterprise. Though I do hope we get to see a Connie sometime, and if we do, I still hope it's one of the ones with a tragic ending.

Yeah I liked the shout out as well.

Quote
I wish she'd mentioned another ship. Lexington, Constellation, Exeter, Hood, anything but Enterprise. It came off as cutesy winking.

Well considering its the flagship mentioning it makes sense.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Shik

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Re: TAS: ....May be.

There's no proof that Enterprise is flagship of anything in 2256/7. That was all about Kirk. For all we know, Yorktown could be flag.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 06:00:02 AM by Shik »

Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #552 on: October 24, 2017, 08:57:11 AM »
My thoughts/observations:
-Vulcan Fu!
-Connie & Enterprise shout out.
-Sarek's strained relationship with Spock comes in part from the fact that he sacrificed Micheal's career in the Vulcan Expeditionary Forces so Spock could get in, but he joined Starfleet making this sacrifice pointless.
-The "scope" on the phaser rifles displays kill counts.  I hope this is just a training exercise feature.  Although it points to the "scope" perhaps being a multi-function display.  And that was a nice call back (maybe) to when Guinan "came down" to Worf's phaser practice level in that one episode.
-Considering that the proto-holodeck appears to be adjacent to an armory, I assume that its a practice range only.  A military technology that later becomes a recreational tool perhaps?
-Speaking of the armory, the weapons make a distinct sound when put in the slots.  Some kind of magnetic lock or something?  Part of a recharge feature?
-Why didn't Saru's threat ganglia go off when Lorica had that phaser tucked into his pants at the end?
-Admiral Cornwell (IIRC) has some psychological training or a background in psychology.
-Not sure how I feel about the red stripes on the shuttles.  Kinda reminds me of the flasher paint options in STO.
-One of the two Houses that meet with the Admiral was probably Mo'Kai, IIRC Dennas was the leader of House Mo'Kai in the 2nd episode.  Was the other guy the leader of the House of D'hgor?
-It would have been nice had the "logic extremists" had name for their little group.  Not the first time we've seen a splinter group of Vulcans: the separatists who were after the Stone of Gol in TNG: "Gambit" and at least a couple of groups in ENT.  At this point I think there's more examples of the Vulcans being dicks than there are "nice" Vulcans.  For a race that supposedly has abandoned emotion and embraced logic they can be quite arrogant.  Now we know where the Romulans get it from...  Also the dude injecting himself with a device and exploding is just like that Kazon in VOY, and the red glow reminded me of bad guys from Iron Man 3.
-The nebula Sarek was lost in was referred to as being by Yridia, a reference to the Yridians seen in TNG?  Also last week they mentioned Benzar, homeworld of the Benzites as being near one of Discovery's spore drive surprise attacks.
-Kol's a devious bastard ain't he.
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Offline Razor

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Re: TAS: ....May be.

There's no proof that Enterprise is flagship of anything in 2256/7. That was all about Kirk. For all we know, Yorktown could be flag.

Its the flagship in the Kelvin timeline it stands to reason its the flagship in the prime timeline.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #554 on: October 24, 2017, 10:09:10 AM »
Discovery has been renewed for Season 2, which may not air until 2019.

Oh, and according to Trekmovie.com and Memory Alpha, the other Klingon was Ujilli, leader of the House of Mo'Kai while Dennas is the leader of the House of D'Ghor.  This seems counter to L'Rell's comment about taking Voq to the "Matriarchs of Mo'Kai", which suggested that the House of Mo'Kai was led by women.
“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #555 on: October 24, 2017, 02:15:46 PM »
Ujilli could be House of Mo'Kai's, for lack of a better term, PR rep.
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Offline Jimi James

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #556 on: October 25, 2017, 10:15:25 AM »
I'm glad that they're expanding on the relationship between Sarepta and Michael. As I said before, I was worried that they were just going to use Derek as name recognition and if that was the case then Michaels mentor could be any Vulcan.

Knowing what we know about the less than stable relationship between Spock and Sarek...they did a good job building off that. It adds a new dynamic to Sarek and makes him a much more trouble led character. Man...to have to make that choice...pick your favorite kid basically. He picks Spock and it ends up being a meaningless choice. The rage and turmoil that must run through that man. No wonder he and Spock clashed.

Lorcca.
That dude is seriously unstable. We've have captains that have had to make tough choices and taken actions that weren't exactly by the book...I keep feeling like his closest comparison is Sisko in many ways, but at least Sisko never went over the edge. Sure he did what needed to be done to get results, but you always new with Sisko, a mark had been left on his conscience. Like when he plots to bring the Romulus into the war. We know own those actions will be with him for the rest of his life.

But Lorca....I don't think he's a bad person. I think part of it is survivors guilt, but he's also obviously suffering from ptsd. I'm interested to see how far they take this. He attacked an admiral and is actively putting people around him he can trust...people that owe him debts. He's manipulated them into liking him, thinking he's a good man, an honest captain.
But he's said it multiple times now and I think the day is coming. That's his ship and he's doing things his way. What happens when Starfleet does try to take it way...or the war ends. Does he go rogue?
Do his crew of loyalists follow their captain.
And that makes me worried about characters like Saru and Tilly.
Tilly is still a cadet but he could give her a field promotion like Nog, making her far more loyal. She's also an idealist though and looks up to Michael. Which side does she choose when the captain tells her to choose teams.
Saru is another story altogether. He doesn't fear Michael or Lorca but he certainly isn't Michaels friend. He doesn't see the captain as a threat either and if positioned between them, it's not difficult to imagine him siding again with his Captain against Michael.

I don't think Tyler is a klingon in disguise as many fan theories suggest. I think it's far more likely he's either been brain washed to be a sleeper agent or is a distraction character. Someone who showed up to to distract us from the bigger picture and focus on him while Lorca goes off the deep end.

I feel a bit better this week about what we're getting plot wise. The pacing is starting to feel more rhythmic, but I'm still not looking forward to the mid season cliffhanger because we're likely going to get a massive game changer in episode nine....I hope the build up to it feels natural and it's not too sudden.

So next week were getting a time loop episode. Nice to see they didn't abandon all the old formulas. ;)
I'm excited to see how they handle it given how they've change narrative style so dramatically with Discovery. Basically, aside from bringing back Mudd, what does this add to the overall story l.

I'm super glad to hear that DS9 is doing well enough on a standalone streaming service to warrant a second season. Rumor suggest we might not get S2 until 2019...that's a bit of a bummer but given what they've done with season 1, I'm ok with them taking thier time to get things right.

I reiterate my desire to see the Enterprise. It was cool getting a direct shout out to Spock, the Constitution class and the Enterprise. It's a bit of fan service, but I'd rather have this stuff me tinned then have DS9 existing in a vacuum as if the rest of Trek canon never happened. It's like them never mentioning Voyager or Enterprise during DS9.

They don't have to go full DCEU and connect everything, but I'm glad they realize that DEC exists in a universe that has some history to it.

I liked the Vulcan shuttle, but it gave me a bit of a Cylon vibe in the way it looked.

Personally, I'm loosing interest in the klingons storyline....quickly. as I said previously, if Voq and now Kol are supposed to be our touchstone to their part of the story....they need to pick things up and give them more air time.

Because of right now, I'm far more interested in the character relationships on DSC.

Io9 or some other site, had an article about how serialized seasons are particularly bad for DSC. And I suppose they have a point, if every episode is part of the greater sum, then you have no opportunities for stand alone episodes like Inner Light, Duet, City on the Edge of Forever, Farris Beyond the Stars....what we would consider the best of the best when it comes to episodic Star Trek.

I can't say they're wrong, but at the same time I'm enjoying the hell out of DSC. Is that enjoyment comparable to seeing those amazing stand alone episodes? I'm not sure. I like that DSC is serialized, even more so than DS9 or S3 of ENT thought about being. It's regrettable that we may never get an Inner Light, Darmok, or City on the Edge of Forever level of science fiction storytelling on DSC. That being said, in any discussion about the best episodes of DS9 or even in Trek, your discussion would be incomplete without mentioning In the Pale Moonlight, the Seige of AR-588, or Nor the Battle to the Strong...all three of which serialized to an extent.

I think DSC just has to find its own way to tell those types of storys. I think Lethe does that to an extend. It moves the plot forward, but we also get a great deal of character development and...and some decent scifi. Those episodes, part of what made them great are not the scifi elements. Those are just a catalyst to get the story started and move it along. What makes them great is the way in which the characters we know have to deal with or overcome some hardship caused by the catalyst.  Duet isn't great because of its twist ending or the disease that the protagonist has. It's great because we get to see a Cardassian do what he does best, reveal orally in the horror of the occupatuon. That part is good on its own,  it what makes Duet truly great is the exploration of Kiras past and her growth as a person we see over the span of 45 minutes.

I think DSC has that potential. It's probably not there yet, but I bet by the second half of the season, were going to see something between Michael and Sarek or Michael and Lorcca that will rattle the DSC to its core. It'd be even better if it wasn't either of them.

Make it about Tilly having to finally choose sides and doing something she thinks she could never do...and we could easily get an episode that rivals the best of Trek.
And now that I think about it, a good time loop episode has the potential to be a season standout.

This is something I think that might warrant it's own topic, serialized vs episodic seasons. I'm interested to hear what you all think.

Apologies if this post is littered with typos or otherwise unintelligible. I'm writing it on my phone.

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Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #557 on: October 25, 2017, 02:03:24 PM »
The origin of the strained relationship between Spock and Sarek shows just how similar the two really are.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #558 on: October 29, 2017, 10:03:56 PM »
It's nice to see a Groundhog Day episode where the person experiencing the loops isn't the focus. It very much had a Cause & Effect feel to it.
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #559 on: October 29, 2017, 10:06:40 PM »
I found some of the casting choices interesting, personally.
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Offline Shik

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"Cause And Effect II: The Revenge". Also, awkward nerd girl falls for the hot jock? Is this "Star Trek: The Teen Rom-Com"?

More interesting were the previews for next week. Saru becomes spore drive backup, perhaps? Rescue attempt on Katrina Cornwell? The Enterprise-J-lookin' ship is USS Gagarin NCC-1309.

Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #561 on: October 31, 2017, 03:51:44 AM »
Pretty good episode.  Probably the closest we'll get to stand alone/random adventure episodes.  Stamets is definitely suffering some after effects of the spore drive, magic space mushrooms will do that to you I guess...

Some observations:
-Gormanders are endangered space whales so preocupied with feeding on alpha particles that they will ignore mating.  So more space panda than space whale really...
-Harry Mudd's helmet looks like something that might have been designed by/for an Andorian.
-The Lorca death montage reminded me of moments from SG-1 "Window of Opportunity", but far darker.
-Those little weaponized dark matter balls are nasty things...
-Mudd robbed a bank on Betazed.
-The crew have a thing for long ass episode titles.

Lorcca.
That dude is seriously unstable. We've have captains that have had to make tough choices and taken actions that weren't exactly by the book...I keep feeling like his closest comparison is Sisko in many ways, but at least Sisko never went over the edge. Sure he did what needed to be done to get results, but you always new with Sisko, a mark had been left on his conscience. Like when he plots to bring the Romulus into the war. We know own those actions will be with him for the rest of his life.

Well to be fair, there was that time Sisko used what was in effect a biological weapon on a Maquis colony to get Eddington to surrender.  Which seemed to have no consequences whatsoever, there was no soul searching, and was never brought up again. 

(snip...)
Saru is another story altogether. He doesn't fear Michael or Lorca but he certainly isn't Michaels friend. He doesn't see the captain as a threat either and if positioned between them, it's not difficult to imagine him siding again with his Captain against Michael.

That comment Saru made about Michael "fitting in" on Discovery after she used him to figure out if "Ripper" was a threat makes me think he has some trust issues with Lorca.  And speaking of Lorca, someone on the STO forums floated the idea that the Lorca we've seen is really the Mirror Universe version of Lorca and he's trying to "fit in" with the Prime Timeline.  Which I guess is a mildly interesting idea, though personally I think some PTSD examination would be more relevant, and it ignores Lorca and Cornwall's history.  That and I don't care much for the Mirror Universe, I know there's supposed to be some connection to the Mirror Universe at some point, I just wish there wasn't.

As for the whole Ash = Voq thing...
Trekmovie.com analysis.
Shazad Latif's response to the fan theory.

I will say that it sounds more plausible than some of the stuff that Trekmovie.com used in their "Is Discovery a Section 31 ship?" analysis (which has several conspiracy theory worthy bits of "evidence".  I'm on the fence on this whole Ash = Voq thing, on the one hand there does seem to be some evidence for it, on the other the whole thing could be some red herring.

EDIT:
Oh and here's some concept art for the new Klingon ships and weapons.  Some of those bat'leth designs are pretty cool, although insanely impractical for a weapon. 

And speaking of Klingons, they identified the ship that abducted Lorca as a D-7, then Saru made a comment about tracking "that bird-of-prey", then Cornwall made the comment "since you got off that bird-of-prey".  So is "bird-of-prey" just Starfleet jargon for Klingon ships now?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 04:07:34 AM by TNC »
“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline Shik

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Re: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #562 on: November 05, 2017, 09:22:54 PM »
Are they really letting Eaves name all the shups & classes? Because this guy has the most narrow-minded outlook & naming convention I've seen outside of zhorlord fanboy types.

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #563 on: November 06, 2017, 05:55:57 PM »
Last night was another good look at Saru.
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Offline Jimi James

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #564 on: November 06, 2017, 07:44:46 PM »
Indeed. I like how much character development they're managing while still driving a serialized story.
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Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #565 on: November 10, 2017, 07:46:47 PM »
Good episode.  Saru's complaining about the constant noise of the planet reminded me of that planet in STO with the constant modem noise.  I liked the Gagarin, and that was a pretty good space battle.  Have any of the Starfleet ships fired a single photon this entire series?  Cause I don't remember them doing so.  And given the scene in the second episode, torpedo warheads are ridiculously small...

Observations:
-Kelpians can run up to 80 km/hr.
-Kelpians are also crazy strong, or Starfleet communicators of this time are crap...
-In the previous episode there were around 10,000 Starfleet/Federation casualties in the war, the destruction of the Gagarin's group adds another 462 to that death toll.
-Out-of-temporal-sync Stamets called Tilly "Captain".  A look at her future?

Also the the second "half" of the season airs January 7th.

“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline Fiery Little One

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #566 on: November 12, 2017, 09:23:20 PM »
Well, that was something.
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Offline Shik

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Re: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #567 on: November 12, 2017, 10:11:59 PM »
"Something" is about right.

Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #568 on: November 13, 2017, 04:00:58 AM »
Well, that was something.

Indeed.

It seems that the spore drive has the ability to access different quantum realities, and this is probably where the Mirror Universe episode(s) will happen.  Loved it when they finally used some torpedoes and blew the Ship of the Dead to Grethor, which seemed reminiscent of destroying the Duras sister's BoP in Generations.  Yay! Admiral Cornwall lives!

What did L'Rell mean by soon? Is Ash Voq?
Did Lorca's typing at his control console mean that he caused the last jump to go wrong? And does that mean that the crazy theory that Lorca is from the Mirror Universe is true?
“Battle is not a simulation. It’s blood and screams and funerals.” – Capt. Georgiou – Star Trek: Discovery – “The Vulcan Hello”

Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #569 on: November 13, 2017, 08:23:12 AM »
You guys are forgetting the most important things; Klingon titties!
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline Razor

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #570 on: November 18, 2017, 12:44:02 AM »
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Official Episode Dicussion Thread - $$$SPOLIERS$$$
« Reply #571 on: November 18, 2017, 03:12:52 PM »
As it should be.
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.