Author Topic: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS  (Read 4411 times)

Offline Jimi James

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Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« on: July 22, 2016, 02:08:29 PM »
Just got back from seeing it and a couple things jumped out at me.

One, I was surprised how much they linked things to the Prime Universe. The Xindi and MACOS were mentioned. I spotted an NX style shuttlepod, albeit briefly. And the big reveal at the end of Spock seeing an image of the ToS crew, which looked to be from TUC.

Two, Yorktown station is visually impressive. Imagine seeing the Citadel (Mass Effect) on the big screen. It's one of the few times I can recall in all of Trek of being so visually blown away that I actually stopped to think to myself, "wow, that is really impressive."

Three, as is typical with all the new Trek films, the villain, Krall is woefully underdeveloped.

That being said, there is certainly more going on throughout the film than that original trailer would have you believe. It's not all Kirk riding dirt bikes. There's a lot of character, particularly between Bones and Spock, but it also pulls a bit from the Prime universe films and deals with Kirk losing touch with his mission and wanting to leave Starfleet. I don't think it's handled as well the original films and the bit about making him a Vice Admiral seemed a bit silly, though seeing as how he was XO and then Captain while still a cadet, I suppose huge leaps in career advancement not unprecedented.

And yes, we get a new Enterprise. NCC-1701-A. And it's not just a reused model of the previous Enterprise, there are changes, though we don't really get to see her for more than a few seconds.

I saw a lot online about Jaylah being an important female character and while she is central to the plot, her character came off as sort of bland to me. Her quirky hang up with people's names isn't really new, she's tech savy and an excellent fighter, and has a grudge to settle with Krall, though not really because all she wants to do is leave the planet and has to be convinced to stay and help.

Like Krall, she could have used far more development.

It's good. I enjoyed it, perhaps more than the last one. The Enterprise went down fighting which was sad and there were a few touching moments between Kelvin-Spock feeling the loss of Prime-Spock.

Hopefully, some pics of the new Enterprise start surfacing soon. I really want to get a good look at the changes.
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Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2016, 02:18:43 PM »
Do they mention what class of ship the Franklin is?
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline Jimi James

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2016, 02:42:36 PM »
Not that I recall, though they did mention it was a warp 4 ship, which makes it older than the NX and that it was an earth ship, not a Federation ship.
Perhaps the class name might have been visible on a display or the dedication plaque, but if so I didn't catch it.
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Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 05:40:28 PM »
That meshes with the rumors that were going around before the movie.
"Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." - Bill Gate's response to Steve Jobs' accusation of theft.

Offline Jedigreedo

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2016, 04:20:24 AM »
I'll start this off by saying that I pretty much don't like anything about the Abrams movies aside from the casting, and I wholly expected to not enjoy this movie. I only went because a friend wanted to go.

I really, really enjoyed this movie.

The best summaration of it is that it seemed like both an apology for Abrams' treatment of the franchise and a love letter to make up for it. There's a lot of things I can pick apart about it but overall it was an unexpectedly good experience, and I enjoyed the cast even more now that they had a movie that lives up to the performances they had to offer. Pine especially stands out to me because I hated him in the other two, under Abrams' direction he 's an intolerable fratboy. In this movie he was still immature and egotistical but they actually brought in the balance of bravado and sentimentality that Kirk has been known for.

Going on further about the characters, I loved that this movie actually gave each one something to do and it didn't just feel like it was an obligation. Abrams always made Chekov a one-note gimmick character, here he actually shines as a rounded character. I'm glad that Anton got to enjoy a larger role in his final film. Uhura got to be great without being a nagging stereotype; Bones and Spock were basically an extended version of their partnership in The Undiscovered Country; Scotty was a lot more delightful enjoyment than Abrams' slapstick version; and Sulu probably got the least focus but every moment with him was well done.

The overall plot was the weakest part of the movie, though most of the story I liked despite the weak villain. I appreciated that it felt very much like a classic TOS plot but the 'one guy bent on revenge has an advanced army just agree to follow him because drone' thing is pretty tired. The one benefit here is that at least it was their ships that betrayed them rather than 'well they're drones, so they all die once defeated.' Granted the mass destruction of their swarm was stupidly ridiculous for Star Trek, it was also stupidly fun. I rolled my eyes and grinned happily.

Similar with the destruction of the Enterprise as well. Destroying the Enterprise is getting to be a pretty tired cliche in itself, but I'm torn on complaining about that because I was more than happy to see Elongatedprise ripped to shreds. While they can't completely remove the Abrams stain, at least they fixed the proportions of the new Enterprise to look more classic and less cheesy.

It was definitely a hit to the feels though with all the tribute to Nimoy's Spock, especially with the overall message of mortality combined with Anton's vastly untimely death.

Despite my dislike of the Enterprise series, I liked the references to it. Mostly because I feel it's very much setting Enterprise's existence in this universe and not the Prime universe. And, I will always admit the MACOs were cool so having their existence not only mentioned but the fate of the division explained was a welcome addition.

Pros:
+ Character growth all around
+ Emotional burdens that felt realistically portrayed
+ New strong female wasn't a love interest. To anyone.
+ Facehugger head lady was neat.
+ New uniforms looked great.
+ New ship looks good.

Cons:
- Tired plot
- Weak villain; it's like Ru'afo, Shinzon and Nero combined
- Everything involving the coincidences of the motorcycle
- Everything involving the coincidences of the weapon
- Krall never thought it odd his old ship suddenly seemed to disappear?

So I would give it about a four out of five. I have a Galaxy Quest comparison to make: The Abrams movies were akin to Tim Allen commanding the ship under the impression it's all fake and he can phone it in; this movie was more of the end battle when everybody was fulfilling their roles seriously. In the end it wasn't the Star Trek I want, but it was enjoyable.
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Offline Razor

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2016, 10:22:00 AM »
Quote
The Xindi and MACOS were mentioned.

Oh shit thats awesome!

I probably wont see it til saturday.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Offline Simon

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 06:54:31 AM »
Do they mention what class of ship the Franklin is?
Not in the dialogue, but I believe the dedication plaque shows it as a Starship Class - although I personally like to read that in the same way that the dedication plaque in TOS said exactly the same thing.  Given the registry of NX-326, I'm personally viewing it as either the Franklin-class or some weird pre-Federation letters-based class.

Offline Jon

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 10:57:30 AM »
I watched it yesterday by myself in the standard theater viewing, and going again today but with my family to see it in GPX/IMAX 3D.

I'm impressed! I loved it. It definitely does blow the first two JJ movies out of the water. I almost shed a tear when Spock opened up the box to find Spock Prime's FF crew photo.

Mentions of the Macos, Xindi, and Romulan war, and the Ent-era crew and shuttle pods video footage was a nice tie-in.

I had paid attention to the end when the Enterprise-A was under construction and launched. What I seemed to notice was the neck and torpedo launcher, and the nacelle struts where changed up a bit but yet remaining the same. Pylons looked like they were swept forward like the original incarnation of the JJprise, but what was changed I believe is the width between nacelles. They seemed to be more spread apart.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 10:53:16 AM by Jon »

Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2016, 04:25:54 PM »
I very much enjoyed it.  Krall and Jaylah could have used more development and Sulu could have done a little more.  As far as Jaylah goes, if she takes them up on that offer to join Starfleet Academy we might see her again...  Loved that they crippled the Enterprise by taking out the pylons and neck. (Krall: "Cut her throat.")

Some random observations/thoughts:
-It was interesting that the torpedoes didn't have the typical glowy look.  They were the Into Darkness super-torps (or perhaps a bit smaller) with an engine plume behind them.  I liked that.
-Nice to see the "orbital" defense platforms around Yorktown, seemingly able to fire three torps in a cluster.
-The Yorktown was freaking awesome
-We know Krall had at least two other people, the guy Jaylah fought with and the woman who was sent to Yorktown, with him.  This would make since given that Tthere were 3 survivors from the Franklin.  Were the armored suit guys people or robots? They recruit people after crashing on the planet?
-Mention of a Xindi War IIRC, is this the name for the conflict seen in Season 3 of ENT, or could there have been second confrontation later?
-Loved the little references, Kirk: "Ripped my shirt again.", Scotty: "A big green hand grabbed it."
-Who ever thought it was a good idea to put a giant spoiler in one of the TV ads needs a stern talking to.

Regarding the Franklin, the NX-375 registry doesn't make since given the NX-class.  Theories,
A) They actually built 375 NX's, the Franklin was part of a refit program, and the Warp scale was changed between ENT times and Kelvin-Timeline.  (Unlikely) 
B) The Franklin was one of those pre-NX ships we saw on ENT and was refitted after the formation of the Federation and given an NX-375 registry as it may have been a prototype refit or something. (More likely)
C) Variation of B, The Franklin was not a ship design seen during ENT, and not refitted, but stayed in service long enough to become a Federation ship after the formation of the Federation and received an NX-375 designation. (Equally likely as B I guess)

Observations on the Kelvin-NCC-1701-A: It went from two torp launchers to one (as far as I could tell), looked like the nacelles and pylons were altered, and the Deflector looked a bit different.
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Offline Jedigreedo

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 02:09:31 AM »
I'm thinking if they were handing out Captain promotions to MACOs and similar people without proper Starfleet training it would make sense to give them leftover prototypes that won't be expected to do much other than survey and diplomacy. They'd already be tested and known whether to be reliable or not, plus they bolster the Federation fleet. Warp 5+ ships get to do the exploring and long range stuff while warp 4- ships would probably stick close to specific regions.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 04:32:48 PM »
Some screen caps:




Source: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/potential-spoilers-what-will-the-alternate-enterprise-a-look-like.279532/page-20

The changes I can identify:
- neck is no longer placed in the middle of the engineering hull
- neck is blended into the engineering hull now without the previous flange
- nacelle pylons appear to be straighter and thicker
- nacelles are more conventional, without the curved "engine hoods"
- nacelles are also farther apart than previously
- slope of the saucer edge is not as steep any more
- saucer may be smaller in diameter (or thicker)

Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 09:46:08 PM »
I was reading somewhere that the new E-A was under construction well before the movie took place. I think it was Pegg, or someone else that said that.

Did they mention something like that in the movie?
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Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 10:17:47 PM »
Right before they send the Enterprise to the planet Commodore Paris mentions that the only ship with better sensors is still under construction at Yorktown, this is near the beginning of the movie.

Regarding the E-A, is it just me or are the bussards and deflector dish more blue/brighter than the previous E-nil?  There's also glowing at the center of the dish and I don't think it glowed before.  Or perhaps it just glows right before jumping to warp?
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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 11:09:57 PM »
Hmm not sure how I feel about it just yet.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 06:15:34 PM »
Came out of this one about a half an hour, or so, ago. As the saying goes, the third time's the charm. It holds true here.

'09 - Star Wars with all of the trappings of being a Star Trek movie.

Into Darkness - Closer, but not really helped by being a twist on Wrath of Khan

Beyond - Nothing but Trek, helped by all of the callbacks.
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Offline TNC

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2016, 12:27:17 PM »
So here's a fun story, not only did Simon Pegg do a bunch of research on Memory Alpha for Beyond, but he also contacted two of the founders of MA to come up with the name of and technobabble behind Uhura's necklace.
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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2016, 12:37:41 PM »
I had wondered a few times during the movie if he did consult MA or not. Now I know he went one step further.
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Offline Jimi James

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2016, 12:42:23 PM »
That's pretty cool. Glad he stepped up and did a bit of research. It showed in the film and paied off well.
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Offline CX

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2016, 01:47:55 PM »
He definitely has that on B&B. ;)
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Offline Xero

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2016, 03:18:04 PM »
I'm finally going to see the movie this Sunday.
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Offline Jimi James

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2016, 03:49:01 PM »
I09, has some concept art for a set of Starfleet Fighters that were cut from the script earlier on. Take a look, they're pretty cool.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-beyond-concept-art-shows-off-starships-and-st-1784471143?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

I'm hoping we get an art book with concept art at some point. I really want to see the designs they went through to get to the Franklin and the Yorktown.

Also, I read in another article that the USS Franklin was a tribute to the director's father. Justin Lin...Frank Lin.
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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2016, 03:56:08 PM »
Some have even noticed a slightly larger gap between the 'K' and the 'L' on the dedication plaque which kind of supports that. I've also heard a hand-wave on that gap: damage due to the crash.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 03:58:48 PM by Fiery Little One »
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Offline Jimi James

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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2016, 09:21:46 AM »
TrekMovie has a running list of hidden references and cameos.
http://trekmovie.com/2016/07/30/hidden-references-cameos-and-easter-eggs-from-star-trek-beyond/

Also, here's the time-lapse construction sequence from the final scene. Should be able to get a better look at some of the changes to the new Ent-A.
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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2016, 02:42:30 PM »
Trekmovie's article was interesting but I also checked out the article they linked to. Both struck me as just scratching the surface.

I'm not entirely sure but I think one of the things they changed on the New A was the bridge dome. It's only really visible when the ship is in space and only for a second or two before the camera angle changes to hide it, but it looks different.
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Re: Star Trek Beyond - Reviews/Discussion - SPOILERS
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2016, 09:11:52 PM »
Just got back from seeing the movie.  I loved the first 2 reboot movies quite allot but Beyond just blows them out of the water. 

I'll start by listing off the positives
-Starbase Yorktown was spectacular seriously this is the stuff Star Trek movies should be showing us.
-More unique aliens (Thank you!) though I still want to see my Gorn and Tholians on the big screen.
-Sulu's husband and Daughter thumbs up from me.
-Commodore Paris gotta love Shohreh Aghdashloo.
-At least the Enterprise went out fighting this time.
-I really liked Jaylah
-Scotty's interactions with Jaylah
-Ok the Franklin is damn cool.
-NX shuttlepod
-MACOS!!!!!!
-They mentioned the Xindi holy shit!!!! Hell if they're federation members by this point it might piss Krall off even more.
-Using Rock..er classical music to fight the swarm that was fuckin awesome.
-I know some felt Krall was underdeveloped but I genuinely liked him as a villian.  I thought his motivations were well thought out and it made his defeat all the more satisfying.

My only real complaint was the destruction of the Enterprise.  I think we lost it way too soon.  That said I think this was way better than the destruction in TSFS and Generations.  One nice thing is that this let the Franklin be the first none Enterprise federation ship to lead a movie.  9 out of 10 for me.
“The boat dipped and swayed and sometimes took on water, but it did not sink; the two brothers had waterproofed it well. I do not know where it finally fetched up, if it ever did; perhaps it reached the sea and sails there forever, like a magic boat in a fairytale. All I know is that it was still afloat and still running on the breast of the flood when it passed the incorporated town limits of Derry, Maine, and there it passes out of this tale forever.” ― Stephen King, It"
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